“AOC is a caricature of performative radicalism. “. You’ve got that right. Thanks for your thoughtful analyses. I hardly count as a progressive, but I value your thoughtful points.
One of the best summations I've read of what happened to Sanders and the working class portion of the Democratic Party he in a small way represented during the 16 and 20 primaries.
The AOC types and their votes have always been a welcome part of the Democratic party as long as they aren't embarrassingly loud. They can buy Carharts and wear work boots, better than them and their donations going third party.
Dems should do well in the midterms, that has been the historical norm, possibly for 28 too we seem to be locked into a back and forth type pattern as the electorate remains unsatisfied. I personally would have an almost impossible time Voting D without a very serious mia culpa on the part of a Dem candidate. My voter registration commits me to nothing. I've heard no solutions suggested for the 8 million imported workers or other convincingly pro worker policies. The days of simply claiming to be pro worker are over.
Good points. In terms of mea culpas the idea that AOC has backtracked on Defunding the Police means nothing to us. That's just saying what is currently beneficial to her.
And it solves none of the problems that the BLM and Defunders started. Currently, even with increased pay, bonuses, and making the entrance standards easier cities cannot hire enough law enforcement. Reason? Nobody wants to go into a profession that progressives have labeled as racist and Nazi-ish. And they don't want their lives ruined by an ambiguous shooting of a black person.
So, how does AOC's "change of heart" solve the problems she created? What does she say should be done?
I’m perpetually amazed that Bernie is seen as “authentic”. The extent to which he wants actual socialism vs European style welfare capitalism is certainly debatable. Pretending that a country can have either with high levels of low skilled immigration and without heavily taxing the middle class is patently dishonest.
I would never vote for Sanders, but he is the only elected official on his part of the far Left who has spoken honestly about the cost of European-level social democracy. He was asked once if having that large of a welfare state would also mean that middle class Americans would have to pay European-level taxes. Sanders said YES, while everyone else on the Left just says taxing the rich enough will be sufficient. Sanders realizes he will never run for President again, so he is again honest about who benefits and who is hurt by massive low-skilled immigration.
Great post - I've been disappointed by Sanders's pivot since the last election, and I appreciate this well-researched review. Sanders has always seemed older than dirt, but before he goes, he's looking for daughters and sons who can carry the standard. But he's finding only stepchildren of medium-grade continuity, and Mamdani is no Sanders either. Do the values we're searching for, the views that Sanders used to espouse, only come from old guys like him? Thank you again!
What makes the Dems look good for 26 and 28? Nothing has changed for them. Trump’s ratings after 11 months? The “fighting”. Dems is a joke. Dems are hateful spiteful people who will make their moronic impeachment antics of Trump’s first term look like child’s play. Does any one think that is what the nonpartisan wants? No matter who the Dems put up, they won’t be seen as leader, just another devil of retribution. No thanks. At least the right has policies one can see and feel. Right or wrong. The Dems have nothing but ex military who think they can circumvent the chain of command in the military and keep the worse of the worse in their jurisdiction to prey on other illegals and commit awful act’s against citizens. As has been pointed out, hoping the other side fails is not an election winning strategy. And M Kelly, looks like a condescending weasel who will gratefully use his wife’s misfortunes to try and get elected.
The number of people not making enough to get by grows daily, deserved or not the party in power gets blamed. Trump has a list of really bad decisions a mile long, from Ukraine to DOGE to billionaire tax cuts and billion dollar deficits to eliminating pro worker anti monopoly protections and agencies like the CFPB. Biden won by being "not as bad as Trump" it can certainly happen again, especially if there is an economic meltdown. I'd vote for the guy again but let's not fool ourselves, he has goofed many times.
Trump is trying things never done before. Whether he has goofed up is too short a time to tell. The numerous frivolous lawsuits skew any results until resolved by SCOTUS. In deed, Trump has clarified, expanded, the definition of his job through SCOTUS more than any other president. The fools are those who judge by out dated concepts from pre Trump. When he gets peace between Russia and Ukraine, that will be a game changer regardless of the details. Redevelopment of Gaza also.
Sucking up to dictators never looks good, nor does throwing a few million Ukrainians to the wolves. Appeasement to a dictator is simply not something Americans do. Trying something never done before has a bad look in this case. Most people simply don't much care about what happens beyond our borders anyway.
He has 3 more years to make things better for the American people. What he needs is a congress and a vision, executive order can only go so far.
It's amazing how few understand the effective principle of getting to know your enemy. Whether you like it or not, treating them to achieve goals works much better than being self righteous jerk. Should I suppose you liked biden's approach when he called the Saudis pariahs? How many big deals have you closed? How many has Trump just in the last 11 months.
Ukraine/Russia is biden's war. How far did he get with the peace process there? Trump wants to save lives. Unlike your approach, land is not more valuable than lives. The details are irrelevant if the war is stopped. You need to update your old worldview. All ;ride gets you are more dead children and more innocents. More destruction, more starvation and a dictator who has limitless access to foreign soldiers he can throw away on his war.
Are you smarter than an ancient genius philosopher?
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
The Republicans will keep the house and the Senate in 2026 and a Republican most likely JD Vance will win the presidency in 2028. The Democrat party is dead, progressive America haters and identity Politics progressives are also dead. And most important of all we still have Trump’s president until noon on January 20, 2029 let us make the most of it
“Stock prices have reached "what looks like a permanently high plateau," Irving Fisher, Yale economist, told members of the Purchasing Agents Association at its monthly dinner meeting at the Builders Exchange Club, 2 Park Ave, last night.”
The National Guard and ICE were already illegally terrorizing regular people, as the video footage submitted in court for their Chicago Operations show. A reminder that you’re not required to obey illegal orders is not terribly controversial in that context.
I received an email from Kelly two days ago fundraising off the shooting. All personal, hysterical, and hyperbolic. Two Guardsmen were shot, he made it all about him and tried to make money off the tragedy. Sickening.
“Climate change” is the only explanation for why Bernie endorsed AOC? How about his obvious narcissism to be a kingmaker, his attempt to finally be relevant after decades of irrelevance in the senate? How about him and his family making money off his fame, and it being financially beneficial for the retarded old socialist (who does enjoy private jets, money and nepotism) to stay in front of crowds and donors? Bernie is a moron, and his DSA campaign managers, press secretaries, his surrogates are all racist and antisemitic kooks. There’s really no difference.
Another dimension to Sanders, and why we will never support him or anyone he endorses is this:
In the 2016 U.S. presidential election, Sanders to Trump voters composed an estimated 6%–12% of Sanders supporters. At least another 12% of Sanders supporters did not vote for Democratic Party nominee Hillary Clinton, but also did not vote for Trump.
Conclusion: Sanders had an effect that had nothing to do with examining his positions. He made his supporters crazy. And he held out on supporting Clinton until she bowed down on some of his ideas...making her look weak.
Obama’s second term is where the Democrats really went off the rails. Hillary’s attempt to run for Obama’s third term rather than Bill’s, along with not listening to Bill and barely using him is what gave Trump the opening. Then Biden ran for Bill’s third term and won, but then gave the country Obama’s third term. Harris promising more of the same handed things back to Trump.
I’m not a fan of Bernie, but pinning Trump on him doesn’t seem fair.
"Whether it’s promoting the feminist grift The Wing or sporting an “Eat the Rich“ dress to the applause of celebrities during the pandemic..." To be more precise, the slogan on Congressman Ocasio-Cortez's dress was "Tax the Rich", not quite the same thing.
I have worked my entire career to keep my CV strong and deep with real experience. It is hilarious to me that AOC and Bernie are considered candidates as the top leader of the free world given their terribly weak is their individual list of real work and life experience. They have done nothing but sponge off the system, and yet Democrats are ready to promote them as qualified and competent to do the job.
This as much as anything identifies the Democrat party as a joke... non-serious playacting fools in the modern arena of politics.
Mr Rojas, do you happen to be a Golden Stater, because this is the most spot on description of the current Dem Party anywhere. It is also the best explanation of Sanders evolving or devolving, as the case may be. We do not have to wonder how mass migration ends for the US. We know. CA Blue collar and lower skilled wages are some of the the lowest in the entire nation, despite the highest cost of living, because CA holds the largest US undocumented population.
90's era CA American construction workers and Blue Collar workers largely lived middle class lives. Not just General Contractors, but Framers, Roofers, Electricians, Plumbers and the like. They lived next to techies and shared restaurants, schools, Little League teams . . . Then slowly, like dinosaurs, they just went extinct. New arrivals willing to accept lower wages and non Western living standards, flooded the state and underbid them. Those below contractor level, sold their homes and fled to other states, retired or accepted a dramatically lower living standard. As they fled, CA morphed into a Single Party Blue State.
The glue that holds the AOC and Bernie Dems together is the realization an Open Border will eventually produce CA like Single Party rule, for the entire US. Without interior enforcement, the Open Border will be repeated, and then followed by an inevitable mass amnesty, Dems will enact when they regain power and kill the Filibuster.
That will cure any trans, Climate and any other Far Left Dem issues, because without opposition, those policies will all be enacted nationwide, just like CA. All, while appeasing the the Koch/Bush/WSJ wing of the Rep Party, just as dedicated as Dems, to Open Borders and endless cheap labor. The enemy of my enemy, is my friend.
No lol, I hail from neoconservative South Florida. I use to have a fairly typical progressive view of immigration. Then I realized there was a huge difference in how workers and college educated cosmopolitans view the issue whether here or in my native Colombia vis a vis Venezuela. I also worked as social worker in immigration under Biden and witnessed mass asylum fraud first hand.
For the same reasons, however, I don't buy into the importing voters narrative. Its incredibly stupid. To give an idea 3/4s of TPS recipients: Venezuelans, Cubans, Nicaraguans are virulent right wingers that wont vote for Democrats no matter how much Trump abuses them haha. In the aggregate, the electoral impact of immigration is irrelevant. Almost half of Latinos voted for Trump this time around.
If citizenship and expanding Dem voter rolls are not the game plan, then the Open Border policy was even more cruel, than imagined.
That means Dems purposefully imported 8 million mostly sparsely educated people, into a knowledge based economy, far too expensive, for most to ever escape poverty. And Dems did so, only to bolster Blue State apportionment counts or to drive down labor prices, by their sheer numbers.
PreBiden new undocumented labor only had to compete with their Americans counterparts. Now they must compete with millions of each other. Not only for jobs, but for scarce affordable housing. Their sheer numbers drive down their wages, while driving up the cost of their housing.
It is a perfect storm, with no escape, for migrants. The vast majority will not ever qualify for asylum, so they they will remain in Immigration Limbo, within the US, but with no means to ever become legal, because Biden's open border has likely poisoned the well for any Immigration Reform, for a decade or longer. In the meantime, mass exploitation is nearly a given.
I just consider Bernie to be a wish-based utopian. I looked at what they did in Vermont trying to sell the payroll tax and other taxes that were gonna be needed to pay for our severely broken healthcare system, and it was rejected outright. It would’ve been like the most ridiculous personal taxes and payroll taxes, and of course it was not gonna address any of our real healthcare system problems, let alone self-care problems . anyway went up in flames as it always does thankfully, this one preemptively but still until Bernie and his PMS Wing peeps put some proposals on the table that are sustainable. I just call bullshit on all that.
“AOC is a caricature of performative radicalism. “. You’ve got that right. Thanks for your thoughtful analyses. I hardly count as a progressive, but I value your thoughtful points.
One of the best summations I've read of what happened to Sanders and the working class portion of the Democratic Party he in a small way represented during the 16 and 20 primaries.
The AOC types and their votes have always been a welcome part of the Democratic party as long as they aren't embarrassingly loud. They can buy Carharts and wear work boots, better than them and their donations going third party.
Dems should do well in the midterms, that has been the historical norm, possibly for 28 too we seem to be locked into a back and forth type pattern as the electorate remains unsatisfied. I personally would have an almost impossible time Voting D without a very serious mia culpa on the part of a Dem candidate. My voter registration commits me to nothing. I've heard no solutions suggested for the 8 million imported workers or other convincingly pro worker policies. The days of simply claiming to be pro worker are over.
Good points. In terms of mea culpas the idea that AOC has backtracked on Defunding the Police means nothing to us. That's just saying what is currently beneficial to her.
And it solves none of the problems that the BLM and Defunders started. Currently, even with increased pay, bonuses, and making the entrance standards easier cities cannot hire enough law enforcement. Reason? Nobody wants to go into a profession that progressives have labeled as racist and Nazi-ish. And they don't want their lives ruined by an ambiguous shooting of a black person.
So, how does AOC's "change of heart" solve the problems she created? What does she say should be done?
.....crickets
I’m perpetually amazed that Bernie is seen as “authentic”. The extent to which he wants actual socialism vs European style welfare capitalism is certainly debatable. Pretending that a country can have either with high levels of low skilled immigration and without heavily taxing the middle class is patently dishonest.
I would never vote for Sanders, but he is the only elected official on his part of the far Left who has spoken honestly about the cost of European-level social democracy. He was asked once if having that large of a welfare state would also mean that middle class Americans would have to pay European-level taxes. Sanders said YES, while everyone else on the Left just says taxing the rich enough will be sufficient. Sanders realizes he will never run for President again, so he is again honest about who benefits and who is hurt by massive low-skilled immigration.
Great post - I've been disappointed by Sanders's pivot since the last election, and I appreciate this well-researched review. Sanders has always seemed older than dirt, but before he goes, he's looking for daughters and sons who can carry the standard. But he's finding only stepchildren of medium-grade continuity, and Mamdani is no Sanders either. Do the values we're searching for, the views that Sanders used to espouse, only come from old guys like him? Thank you again!
What makes the Dems look good for 26 and 28? Nothing has changed for them. Trump’s ratings after 11 months? The “fighting”. Dems is a joke. Dems are hateful spiteful people who will make their moronic impeachment antics of Trump’s first term look like child’s play. Does any one think that is what the nonpartisan wants? No matter who the Dems put up, they won’t be seen as leader, just another devil of retribution. No thanks. At least the right has policies one can see and feel. Right or wrong. The Dems have nothing but ex military who think they can circumvent the chain of command in the military and keep the worse of the worse in their jurisdiction to prey on other illegals and commit awful act’s against citizens. As has been pointed out, hoping the other side fails is not an election winning strategy. And M Kelly, looks like a condescending weasel who will gratefully use his wife’s misfortunes to try and get elected.
The number of people not making enough to get by grows daily, deserved or not the party in power gets blamed. Trump has a list of really bad decisions a mile long, from Ukraine to DOGE to billionaire tax cuts and billion dollar deficits to eliminating pro worker anti monopoly protections and agencies like the CFPB. Biden won by being "not as bad as Trump" it can certainly happen again, especially if there is an economic meltdown. I'd vote for the guy again but let's not fool ourselves, he has goofed many times.
Trump is trying things never done before. Whether he has goofed up is too short a time to tell. The numerous frivolous lawsuits skew any results until resolved by SCOTUS. In deed, Trump has clarified, expanded, the definition of his job through SCOTUS more than any other president. The fools are those who judge by out dated concepts from pre Trump. When he gets peace between Russia and Ukraine, that will be a game changer regardless of the details. Redevelopment of Gaza also.
We shall see.
Sucking up to dictators never looks good, nor does throwing a few million Ukrainians to the wolves. Appeasement to a dictator is simply not something Americans do. Trying something never done before has a bad look in this case. Most people simply don't much care about what happens beyond our borders anyway.
He has 3 more years to make things better for the American people. What he needs is a congress and a vision, executive order can only go so far.
"The number of people not making enough to get by grows daily..." -- yet you think they want to fund Ukraine's teachers' retirement forever.
It's amazing how few understand the effective principle of getting to know your enemy. Whether you like it or not, treating them to achieve goals works much better than being self righteous jerk. Should I suppose you liked biden's approach when he called the Saudis pariahs? How many big deals have you closed? How many has Trump just in the last 11 months.
Ukraine/Russia is biden's war. How far did he get with the peace process there? Trump wants to save lives. Unlike your approach, land is not more valuable than lives. The details are irrelevant if the war is stopped. You need to update your old worldview. All ;ride gets you are more dead children and more innocents. More destruction, more starvation and a dictator who has limitless access to foreign soldiers he can throw away on his war.
Are you smarter than an ancient genius philosopher?
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
The Republicans will keep the house and the Senate in 2026 and a Republican most likely JD Vance will win the presidency in 2028. The Democrat party is dead, progressive America haters and identity Politics progressives are also dead. And most important of all we still have Trump’s president until noon on January 20, 2029 let us make the most of it
...Heard it all before, from Republicans in 2004 and Democrats in 2012.
Do you need to be reminded what happened to each of those parties four years after such declarations of 'permanent rule'?
I stand by my comments we are in very different times.
“Stock prices have reached "what looks like a permanently high plateau," Irving Fisher, Yale economist, told members of the Purchasing Agents Association at its monthly dinner meeting at the Builders Exchange Club, 2 Park Ave, last night.”
October 16, 1929
https://www.nytimes.com/1929/10/16/archives/fisher-sees-stocks-permanently-high-yale-economist-tells-purchasing.html
(Note: Fisher famously used the phrase ‘we are living in a new era’ to describe the ‘permanent boom’ in equities elsewhere)
Vance’s prospects largely depend on how well the economy does and how well people like Trump at the end of his term.
It’s quite possible someone like Hawley could find an edge if there is fatigue with Trump’s style.
The only competition will be Marco Rubio with a very, very long shot of Ted Cruz! But there will be no Democrat.
Way too early to say that.
Look at the recent attention on Mark Kelly. Much better candidate than Newsom for swing states.
Yes, shout-out to Mark Kelly for inciting the crazies to shoot law enforcement.
The National Guard and ICE were already illegally terrorizing regular people, as the video footage submitted in court for their Chicago Operations show. A reminder that you’re not required to obey illegal orders is not terribly controversial in that context.
You can read the court proceedings yourself: https://cst.brightspotcdn.com/49/34/daecfb4d4b86971a884bd736a564/ellisopinion.pdf
Kelly did not incite the crazies to shoot law enforcement.
Kelly himself nearly lost his wife to a politically motivated shooting, and is himself former military.
Lisa Lisa Lisa. His wife was shot by a mentally ill man with no connections to politics.
I agree, however, Kelly has been riding and fundraising off this lie for many years.
And now we can tack this onto ICE terrorizing the civilian populace: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/11/28/hegseth-ordered-second-strike-kill-caribbean-boat-survivors-report.html
That takes the statement about not obeying illegal orders from ‘non-controversial’ to ‘extremely prescient’.
Better candidate, but Newsom has the momentum and will be an utter failure with the working class.
I stand by my comment!
I received an email from Kelly two days ago fundraising off the shooting. All personal, hysterical, and hyperbolic. Two Guardsmen were shot, he made it all about him and tried to make money off the tragedy. Sickening.
“Climate change” is the only explanation for why Bernie endorsed AOC? How about his obvious narcissism to be a kingmaker, his attempt to finally be relevant after decades of irrelevance in the senate? How about him and his family making money off his fame, and it being financially beneficial for the retarded old socialist (who does enjoy private jets, money and nepotism) to stay in front of crowds and donors? Bernie is a moron, and his DSA campaign managers, press secretaries, his surrogates are all racist and antisemitic kooks. There’s really no difference.
Another dimension to Sanders, and why we will never support him or anyone he endorses is this:
In the 2016 U.S. presidential election, Sanders to Trump voters composed an estimated 6%–12% of Sanders supporters. At least another 12% of Sanders supporters did not vote for Democratic Party nominee Hillary Clinton, but also did not vote for Trump.
Conclusion: Sanders had an effect that had nothing to do with examining his positions. He made his supporters crazy. And he held out on supporting Clinton until she bowed down on some of his ideas...making her look weak.
Without Sanders there would be no Trump.
Obama’s second term is where the Democrats really went off the rails. Hillary’s attempt to run for Obama’s third term rather than Bill’s, along with not listening to Bill and barely using him is what gave Trump the opening. Then Biden ran for Bill’s third term and won, but then gave the country Obama’s third term. Harris promising more of the same handed things back to Trump.
I’m not a fan of Bernie, but pinning Trump on him doesn’t seem fair.
more sanders voters switched to Clinton than Clinton voters switched to Obama, yet Obama won.
Clinton lost the working class because she plain old didn't like us. In her heart she is still the "Goldwater Girl" she was in 64.
"Whether it’s promoting the feminist grift The Wing or sporting an “Eat the Rich“ dress to the applause of celebrities during the pandemic..." To be more precise, the slogan on Congressman Ocasio-Cortez's dress was "Tax the Rich", not quite the same thing.
And rich in the audience clapped like trained seals.... Her constituency is primarily the media.
Yes, they did. It was radical chic.
I have worked my entire career to keep my CV strong and deep with real experience. It is hilarious to me that AOC and Bernie are considered candidates as the top leader of the free world given their terribly weak is their individual list of real work and life experience. They have done nothing but sponge off the system, and yet Democrats are ready to promote them as qualified and competent to do the job.
This as much as anything identifies the Democrat party as a joke... non-serious playacting fools in the modern arena of politics.
Mr Rojas, do you happen to be a Golden Stater, because this is the most spot on description of the current Dem Party anywhere. It is also the best explanation of Sanders evolving or devolving, as the case may be. We do not have to wonder how mass migration ends for the US. We know. CA Blue collar and lower skilled wages are some of the the lowest in the entire nation, despite the highest cost of living, because CA holds the largest US undocumented population.
90's era CA American construction workers and Blue Collar workers largely lived middle class lives. Not just General Contractors, but Framers, Roofers, Electricians, Plumbers and the like. They lived next to techies and shared restaurants, schools, Little League teams . . . Then slowly, like dinosaurs, they just went extinct. New arrivals willing to accept lower wages and non Western living standards, flooded the state and underbid them. Those below contractor level, sold their homes and fled to other states, retired or accepted a dramatically lower living standard. As they fled, CA morphed into a Single Party Blue State.
The glue that holds the AOC and Bernie Dems together is the realization an Open Border will eventually produce CA like Single Party rule, for the entire US. Without interior enforcement, the Open Border will be repeated, and then followed by an inevitable mass amnesty, Dems will enact when they regain power and kill the Filibuster.
That will cure any trans, Climate and any other Far Left Dem issues, because without opposition, those policies will all be enacted nationwide, just like CA. All, while appeasing the the Koch/Bush/WSJ wing of the Rep Party, just as dedicated as Dems, to Open Borders and endless cheap labor. The enemy of my enemy, is my friend.
No lol, I hail from neoconservative South Florida. I use to have a fairly typical progressive view of immigration. Then I realized there was a huge difference in how workers and college educated cosmopolitans view the issue whether here or in my native Colombia vis a vis Venezuela. I also worked as social worker in immigration under Biden and witnessed mass asylum fraud first hand.
For the same reasons, however, I don't buy into the importing voters narrative. Its incredibly stupid. To give an idea 3/4s of TPS recipients: Venezuelans, Cubans, Nicaraguans are virulent right wingers that wont vote for Democrats no matter how much Trump abuses them haha. In the aggregate, the electoral impact of immigration is irrelevant. Almost half of Latinos voted for Trump this time around.
If citizenship and expanding Dem voter rolls are not the game plan, then the Open Border policy was even more cruel, than imagined.
That means Dems purposefully imported 8 million mostly sparsely educated people, into a knowledge based economy, far too expensive, for most to ever escape poverty. And Dems did so, only to bolster Blue State apportionment counts or to drive down labor prices, by their sheer numbers.
PreBiden new undocumented labor only had to compete with their Americans counterparts. Now they must compete with millions of each other. Not only for jobs, but for scarce affordable housing. Their sheer numbers drive down their wages, while driving up the cost of their housing.
It is a perfect storm, with no escape, for migrants. The vast majority will not ever qualify for asylum, so they they will remain in Immigration Limbo, within the US, but with no means to ever become legal, because Biden's open border has likely poisoned the well for any Immigration Reform, for a decade or longer. In the meantime, mass exploitation is nearly a given.
In all seriousness, they do it because they're retarded not because they're trying to win elections lmao
I just consider Bernie to be a wish-based utopian. I looked at what they did in Vermont trying to sell the payroll tax and other taxes that were gonna be needed to pay for our severely broken healthcare system, and it was rejected outright. It would’ve been like the most ridiculous personal taxes and payroll taxes, and of course it was not gonna address any of our real healthcare system problems, let alone self-care problems . anyway went up in flames as it always does thankfully, this one preemptively but still until Bernie and his PMS Wing peeps put some proposals on the table that are sustainable. I just call bullshit on all that.