This both raises really good points and kind of feels like it misses the mark in some ways.
I feel like we need to grapple with the contradiction of simultaneously wanting very low wage workers to keep prices low and the reality that low wage workers do not make enough to pay for their own healthcare, housing, food, utilities, and childcare. This is a key issue and contradiction that we need to fix.
But the prescription for food does not ring true. For context, I live in a rural exurb which until fairly recently had very limited grocery options, and much of my family lives or lived in rural areas, some still extremely rural.
Walmart was a godsend. I don’t love it from a philosophical perspective, but it has a wide variety of very reasonably priced healthy food, it has a big reasonably priced produce section, and it delivers at a very reasonable price, a godsend for elderly and disabled people. It is literally the biggest grocery chain in America for a reason. And there are Walmarts in rural areas with no other full service groceries including areas my family hails from.
I am less familiar with dollar stores, but every one I have seen has frozen and canned fruit and veg, staples like rice, oatmeal, flour and sugar, frozen meat, canned or pouched tuna, peanut butter, eggs, and other basics.
Fresh produce out of season is, to some degree, a luxury item. Everyone needs fruit and veg. It does not have to be from the produce section. Even most farmers don’t have fresh fruit and veg growing all year round. Frozen is typically cheaper and just as nutritious. Canned is a pretty good option. Neither one presents the logistical and budget issues that fresh does, which is perishable, fragile, and typically seasonal - and thus more expensive.
No one should go hungry in America, but it seems like the fact, 70% of Americans are now overweight or obese, and more than 20% of kids also have weight issues, would seem worth mentioning.
As would the relative new use of Food Stamps, by college students. Nearly every college student in the country qualifies for Food Stamps. They are adults with very small incomes, but prior to Obama, few enrolled in Food Stamps. Ramen noodles and cheese pizza, because pepperoni was an unaffordable luxury, were a right of passage. As was the occasional week, sustained by lunch meat, crackers and peanut butter, when budgets came up short at the end of the semester.
The Obama administration actively sought to enroll as many college kids as possible in SNAP, including middle class kids with meal plans. Many happily enrolled because SNAP cards, while not able to be utilized for booze directly, could be sold for beer money. Toss in another 500K dead people, fraudulently enrolled, and that might be at least, a small portion of the problem.
AI says, in 1970, the US had a little more than 200 million people , and 8 million people and change enrolled in Food Stamps. Today with a population of 335 million, we have 41 million recipients? So while our population rose by a little more than 1/3, but the number of Food Stamp recipients rose 5X ?
All in the place, better at producing affordable food, then anywhere else on the planet. Trump's hyperbole certainly does not help, but laying this entirely at his feet, 10 months into his administration, after Biden's disaster, would be comical, if it were not such a serious subject.
Nor should we ignore the effect of Dem border policies. 20 years ago US immigrants comprised 12% of the US poor. Today it is 25%. That is a massive increase in 2 short decades. If we are producing this much domestic need, importing people who are not economically self sufficient, en mass, would seem an especially bad idea.
The answer, as always, must provide for the truly needy, while avoiding fraud and the effects of personal choices. Sports gambling, once limited to Vegas and few other venues has exploded nationwide recently, as has pot use. Americans should aid those truly in need, but misplaced priorities by adults, should be their problem.
On your next visit to the store, spend a little time looking around at the shopping carts of others and look at the person(s) with those carts.
In almost all cases you'll see a correlation between the adults and the food they eat. A really sad sight is when they have children in tow that are clearly repeating the pattern (I don't want to say exercise).
Attempts to fix these problems is mostly done by well meaning people that don't address the real issues and just reaffirm this pattern of behavior.
To the list of increased sports betting, don't forget lottery tickets, tattoos, or extravagant finger nails. These may seem like small luxuries, but certainly not more important than nutritious food.
I've often thought that Walmart is one of the most effective entities we have in fighting poverty. It allows for people at the margins to provide for their families while maintaining a level of independence and dignity.
And what kinds of food are people buying? My parents grew up very poor… my dad was a machinist by trade and decided to open his own shop when I was a baby. Of course, money was tight… I remember my mom telling me she would buy the whole chicken, cut it up herself and could make it last a while as a result. And she was always looking at the ‘sales’ in the newspaper.
If people are buying convenience foods, of course that is more expensive and not as healthy. I think these days, with the availability of all of this stuff, people think they have to have it.
I wish too we could reduce the added sugar content in our foods.. this, in my opinion, is contributing to obesity, which adds to health problems and costs.
Good point. My husband grew up in abject poverty, and is now a highly compensated professional. In the waning days of Covid, an exceptionally well compensated fill in housekeeper was be moaning the fact her 1 year old granddaughter loved fresh blueberries, and none were available at the grocery.
After she left, my husband noted only my presence kept him from informing her, he was 23 years old and at a grad school reception, before he ever tasted a fresh blueberry. " It's winter, an orange won't kill her."
Most Americans of a certain age, grew up eating what was "in season", because outside of wealthy enclaves few other options existed, or if they did , they were prohibitively expensive for the majority of shoppers. Also, it tasted best and was cheap due to abundance. We are now flooded with so many choices, like cars, food now comes in all levels of luxury. One need not ingest only the highest levels, for it to be nutritious.
The average cost for families for cell phone users is $114 per month. That's a lot of food. And it doesn't include the cost of purchasing a cell phone.
Only one example, but what we'd like to see is more details about families where there is food shortage. Where is their money going? How many could work, but don't. Currently, the lowest 20% of earners' families gets about $64K per year in welfare benefits. That's a TON of money and help. Some money is going for shelter, but where is all of the other money going? And in that bottom 20% NONE are working? Huh? 20% of people in this country can't work?
How much food deprivation is because more and more women/girls are single parent mothers? How much could the food crisis be solved by providing contingencies on welfare to single parent mothers unless they identify the father, and then making the fathers support the babies or they go to jail?
We don't like to think of children being hungry. But there are numerous reasons for this that seem to be controllable. (see Ronda Ross's comment below for some more on these hidden issues that might be contributing to food shortage)
Food security would be a good issue to pair with pointing out the unfairness of farm subsidies, and arguments to cut them for big agribusiness (especially corn) while still helping small farmers. We could use the savings to expand SNAP and programs for healthy school meals. Or we could even subsidize growers of fresh vegetables.
A small tax on sugar could also help. It would be politically risky, but if advocates argued for devoting all the revenue to healthy school meals (a popular cause from polling I've seen), at least some Democrats might be willing to back it.
Why are you focusing on fresh fruit and vegetables instead of just fruit and vegetables?
Veggies and fruit sold frozen or canned are typically picked using the max amount of automation, have very little wasted, and are unlikely to spoil or be damaged before being eaten.
Fresh is generally hand-picked, lots gets wasted because fresh is expected to be perfect and you can’t sell anything blemished or bruised, has spoilage all along the supply chain, and if not sold and eaten promptly, goes bad and gets thrown out.
Fresh strawberries, 16 oz, 5.99. Frozen strawberries, 16 oz, 2.99, same store. Basically twice as much for the same nutrition.
I love fresh fruit and veg, and I love and support small farmers, but subsidizing the most expensive food for the poor does not make sense.
According to Census of Agriculture Typology Report, 95% of farms are small, family farms. This is where you think you're going to make a huge savings, taxing the other 5%? What do you think that will do to food prices? Why not look instead at why so many people qualify. Are they able-bodied? Look at the public education system, graduating functionally illiterate people with no skills, then demanding they be paid a "living wage" (whatever that is).
Every nation on earth, with the capability, subsidizes their food supply. There is a reason for that. 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food will kill most people. Even the US, one of the few nations on earth able to produce more food than we consume, we are is always roughly 30 days -6 months from complete societal meltdown, should our food supply ever suffer a major interruption.
In cities, where groceries and fridges are small and freezers a rarity, 3-4 weeks would produce chaos and violence. In the suburbs, where groceries are larger and many families have stocked pantries and freezers, in 2-3 months rioting would appear. Rural areas where people tend to be better stocked due to distance to the grocery, some have live stock and/or are armed, and able to hunt game, all hell would still break loose within 4-6 months.
Finally, all that evil corn and sugar might be a problem for Americans with weight issues, but in the much of the world it sustains life. Farm subsidies are like death and taxes, Dem or Rep in the WH, they are not likely to go anywhere, anytime soon.
Solving the grocery affordability crisis is complicated by the simultaneous family farm crisis. Growing healthy food is incredibly labor intenstive and the price of labor and inputs are always rising, putting the squeeze on farmers' profit margins. Not to mention how hard it is for them to compete with Big Ag monopolies. We need solutions that are good for both consumers and small farmers.
It would help if more young men were working or at least looking for a job. See chart in link.
This chart below from our friends at EPIC is deeply troubling. It shows that fewer and fewer males between the ages of 16-24 are working. It used to be more than 70% were working, now it is less than 60%.
We would argue this is the MOST important age for men to be hard at work and honing their job skills. As we've said 100 times, the younger that men (especially) start working, the more successful they are in their careers and their lifetime earnings.
How about starting in pre-school and kindergarten telling kids that if they stay in school, get married, and then have children -- in that order -- they will most likely not be poor.
The Liberal Patriot might try sticking its neck out with policy solutions once in a while, instead of rehashing the nuances of problems with gratuitous swipes at "liberals" as if that were synonymous with Democrats.
Found studies that up to 1/3 of food purchased becomes food waste. We have seen that in some families....they don't eat leftovers. We eat ALL leftovers.
How much "hunger" would there be if people didn't throw away 1/3 of their food?
My dad (junior enlisted) would have walked over hot coals and worked 5 jobs rather than admit he couldn't feed his family. Today in our local paper we have fathers writing letters to the editor DEMANDING for more assistance for their families.
This both raises really good points and kind of feels like it misses the mark in some ways.
I feel like we need to grapple with the contradiction of simultaneously wanting very low wage workers to keep prices low and the reality that low wage workers do not make enough to pay for their own healthcare, housing, food, utilities, and childcare. This is a key issue and contradiction that we need to fix.
But the prescription for food does not ring true. For context, I live in a rural exurb which until fairly recently had very limited grocery options, and much of my family lives or lived in rural areas, some still extremely rural.
Walmart was a godsend. I don’t love it from a philosophical perspective, but it has a wide variety of very reasonably priced healthy food, it has a big reasonably priced produce section, and it delivers at a very reasonable price, a godsend for elderly and disabled people. It is literally the biggest grocery chain in America for a reason. And there are Walmarts in rural areas with no other full service groceries including areas my family hails from.
I am less familiar with dollar stores, but every one I have seen has frozen and canned fruit and veg, staples like rice, oatmeal, flour and sugar, frozen meat, canned or pouched tuna, peanut butter, eggs, and other basics.
Fresh produce out of season is, to some degree, a luxury item. Everyone needs fruit and veg. It does not have to be from the produce section. Even most farmers don’t have fresh fruit and veg growing all year round. Frozen is typically cheaper and just as nutritious. Canned is a pretty good option. Neither one presents the logistical and budget issues that fresh does, which is perishable, fragile, and typically seasonal - and thus more expensive.
No one should go hungry in America, but it seems like the fact, 70% of Americans are now overweight or obese, and more than 20% of kids also have weight issues, would seem worth mentioning.
As would the relative new use of Food Stamps, by college students. Nearly every college student in the country qualifies for Food Stamps. They are adults with very small incomes, but prior to Obama, few enrolled in Food Stamps. Ramen noodles and cheese pizza, because pepperoni was an unaffordable luxury, were a right of passage. As was the occasional week, sustained by lunch meat, crackers and peanut butter, when budgets came up short at the end of the semester.
The Obama administration actively sought to enroll as many college kids as possible in SNAP, including middle class kids with meal plans. Many happily enrolled because SNAP cards, while not able to be utilized for booze directly, could be sold for beer money. Toss in another 500K dead people, fraudulently enrolled, and that might be at least, a small portion of the problem.
AI says, in 1970, the US had a little more than 200 million people , and 8 million people and change enrolled in Food Stamps. Today with a population of 335 million, we have 41 million recipients? So while our population rose by a little more than 1/3, but the number of Food Stamp recipients rose 5X ?
All in the place, better at producing affordable food, then anywhere else on the planet. Trump's hyperbole certainly does not help, but laying this entirely at his feet, 10 months into his administration, after Biden's disaster, would be comical, if it were not such a serious subject.
Nor should we ignore the effect of Dem border policies. 20 years ago US immigrants comprised 12% of the US poor. Today it is 25%. That is a massive increase in 2 short decades. If we are producing this much domestic need, importing people who are not economically self sufficient, en mass, would seem an especially bad idea.
The answer, as always, must provide for the truly needy, while avoiding fraud and the effects of personal choices. Sports gambling, once limited to Vegas and few other venues has exploded nationwide recently, as has pot use. Americans should aid those truly in need, but misplaced priorities by adults, should be their problem.
Very true.
On your next visit to the store, spend a little time looking around at the shopping carts of others and look at the person(s) with those carts.
In almost all cases you'll see a correlation between the adults and the food they eat. A really sad sight is when they have children in tow that are clearly repeating the pattern (I don't want to say exercise).
Attempts to fix these problems is mostly done by well meaning people that don't address the real issues and just reaffirm this pattern of behavior.
To the list of increased sports betting, don't forget lottery tickets, tattoos, or extravagant finger nails. These may seem like small luxuries, but certainly not more important than nutritious food.
Thank you. Many good points here.
I've often thought that Walmart is one of the most effective entities we have in fighting poverty. It allows for people at the margins to provide for their families while maintaining a level of independence and dignity.
And what kinds of food are people buying? My parents grew up very poor… my dad was a machinist by trade and decided to open his own shop when I was a baby. Of course, money was tight… I remember my mom telling me she would buy the whole chicken, cut it up herself and could make it last a while as a result. And she was always looking at the ‘sales’ in the newspaper.
If people are buying convenience foods, of course that is more expensive and not as healthy. I think these days, with the availability of all of this stuff, people think they have to have it.
I wish too we could reduce the added sugar content in our foods.. this, in my opinion, is contributing to obesity, which adds to health problems and costs.
Good point. My husband grew up in abject poverty, and is now a highly compensated professional. In the waning days of Covid, an exceptionally well compensated fill in housekeeper was be moaning the fact her 1 year old granddaughter loved fresh blueberries, and none were available at the grocery.
After she left, my husband noted only my presence kept him from informing her, he was 23 years old and at a grad school reception, before he ever tasted a fresh blueberry. " It's winter, an orange won't kill her."
Most Americans of a certain age, grew up eating what was "in season", because outside of wealthy enclaves few other options existed, or if they did , they were prohibitively expensive for the majority of shoppers. Also, it tasted best and was cheap due to abundance. We are now flooded with so many choices, like cars, food now comes in all levels of luxury. One need not ingest only the highest levels, for it to be nutritious.
The average cost for families for cell phone users is $114 per month. That's a lot of food. And it doesn't include the cost of purchasing a cell phone.
Only one example, but what we'd like to see is more details about families where there is food shortage. Where is their money going? How many could work, but don't. Currently, the lowest 20% of earners' families gets about $64K per year in welfare benefits. That's a TON of money and help. Some money is going for shelter, but where is all of the other money going? And in that bottom 20% NONE are working? Huh? 20% of people in this country can't work?
How much food deprivation is because more and more women/girls are single parent mothers? How much could the food crisis be solved by providing contingencies on welfare to single parent mothers unless they identify the father, and then making the fathers support the babies or they go to jail?
We don't like to think of children being hungry. But there are numerous reasons for this that seem to be controllable. (see Ronda Ross's comment below for some more on these hidden issues that might be contributing to food shortage)
Food security would be a good issue to pair with pointing out the unfairness of farm subsidies, and arguments to cut them for big agribusiness (especially corn) while still helping small farmers. We could use the savings to expand SNAP and programs for healthy school meals. Or we could even subsidize growers of fresh vegetables.
A small tax on sugar could also help. It would be politically risky, but if advocates argued for devoting all the revenue to healthy school meals (a popular cause from polling I've seen), at least some Democrats might be willing to back it.
Why are you focusing on fresh fruit and vegetables instead of just fruit and vegetables?
Veggies and fruit sold frozen or canned are typically picked using the max amount of automation, have very little wasted, and are unlikely to spoil or be damaged before being eaten.
Fresh is generally hand-picked, lots gets wasted because fresh is expected to be perfect and you can’t sell anything blemished or bruised, has spoilage all along the supply chain, and if not sold and eaten promptly, goes bad and gets thrown out.
Fresh strawberries, 16 oz, 5.99. Frozen strawberries, 16 oz, 2.99, same store. Basically twice as much for the same nutrition.
I love fresh fruit and veg, and I love and support small farmers, but subsidizing the most expensive food for the poor does not make sense.
According to Census of Agriculture Typology Report, 95% of farms are small, family farms. This is where you think you're going to make a huge savings, taxing the other 5%? What do you think that will do to food prices? Why not look instead at why so many people qualify. Are they able-bodied? Look at the public education system, graduating functionally illiterate people with no skills, then demanding they be paid a "living wage" (whatever that is).
Every nation on earth, with the capability, subsidizes their food supply. There is a reason for that. 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food will kill most people. Even the US, one of the few nations on earth able to produce more food than we consume, we are is always roughly 30 days -6 months from complete societal meltdown, should our food supply ever suffer a major interruption.
In cities, where groceries and fridges are small and freezers a rarity, 3-4 weeks would produce chaos and violence. In the suburbs, where groceries are larger and many families have stocked pantries and freezers, in 2-3 months rioting would appear. Rural areas where people tend to be better stocked due to distance to the grocery, some have live stock and/or are armed, and able to hunt game, all hell would still break loose within 4-6 months.
Finally, all that evil corn and sugar might be a problem for Americans with weight issues, but in the much of the world it sustains life. Farm subsidies are like death and taxes, Dem or Rep in the WH, they are not likely to go anywhere, anytime soon.
Solving the grocery affordability crisis is complicated by the simultaneous family farm crisis. Growing healthy food is incredibly labor intenstive and the price of labor and inputs are always rising, putting the squeeze on farmers' profit margins. Not to mention how hard it is for them to compete with Big Ag monopolies. We need solutions that are good for both consumers and small farmers.
The fundamental cause of most of this is mental health.
As long as we continue to ignore that fact and don't deal with reality, they will continue to increase.
It would help if more young men were working or at least looking for a job. See chart in link.
This chart below from our friends at EPIC is deeply troubling. It shows that fewer and fewer males between the ages of 16-24 are working. It used to be more than 70% were working, now it is less than 60%.
We would argue this is the MOST important age for men to be hard at work and honing their job skills. As we've said 100 times, the younger that men (especially) start working, the more successful they are in their careers and their lifetime earnings.
https://committeetounleashprosperity.com/hotlines/hardly-working/
So what do you suggest? Endless price regulation? Socialized agriculture?
More fiscal confiscation? All of the above?
Any other moral hazards?
Consider restoring the incentives for food production , reducing regulatory constraints and , of course, end tariffs!
How about starting in pre-school and kindergarten telling kids that if they stay in school, get married, and then have children -- in that order -- they will most likely not be poor.
The Liberal Patriot might try sticking its neck out with policy solutions once in a while, instead of rehashing the nuances of problems with gratuitous swipes at "liberals" as if that were synonymous with Democrats.
Gratuitous swipes like "anti-government fanatics on the right"??
An update to our earlier comment.
Found studies that up to 1/3 of food purchased becomes food waste. We have seen that in some families....they don't eat leftovers. We eat ALL leftovers.
How much "hunger" would there be if people didn't throw away 1/3 of their food?
My dad (junior enlisted) would have walked over hot coals and worked 5 jobs rather than admit he couldn't feed his family. Today in our local paper we have fathers writing letters to the editor DEMANDING for more assistance for their families.