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KDBD's avatar

I donโ€™t think the way of looking at the Democrats problem is a matter of far left to moderate. I think it is a matter of rational thinking vs irrational thinking on an issue. For instance addressing people with gender identity issues is a rational and just position, making sure they can hold jobs and gain housing and medical treatment is also. But trying to convince everyone a boy can be a girl, boys who think they are girls can play in girl sports and children can make life altering decisions is not. I can go through all the top cultural issues and. Have the same debate. The issue is a good one but the solutions are irrational. That is why Democrats are losing so many people. It is not really a left vs right. It is an irrational problem solving that is at the heart of the issue. This is what is what is under the Democrats trust issue. Some may call it common sense. I call it a lack of rational thinking which addresses real social issues

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Norm Fox's avatar

Itโ€™s a combination of rational vs irrational and live and let live. Leaving consenting adults alone to do as they will on their own time and dime will always win the day. Forcing the population at large to accept that a man can become a woman and using the public schools to push your social agenda on other peopleโ€™s kids is the polar opposite of live and let live.

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KDBD's avatar
12hEdited

I can see the live and let live philosophy also coming into play for some issues but ones like immigration and keeping cities safe tend to be grounded more in rational thinking I am not suggesting that Trump is a rational problem solver. I tend to think he understands the big picture issue with Democrats and then chooses the opposite of what they are pushing so then he looks rational. Quite a trick that Democrats walked right into.

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Kathleen McCook's avatar

๐๐ž๐Ÿ๐จ๐ซ๐ž ๐๐ข๐ฌ๐œ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ง๐  ๐ฉ๐จ๐ฅ๐ข๐œ๐ฒ ๐จ๐ซ ๐ฉ๐ฅ๐š๐ญ๐Ÿ๐จ๐ซ๐ฆ ๐œ๐ก๐š๐ง๐ ๐ž๐ฌ-- ๐ฐ๐ก๐š๐ญ ๐š๐›๐จ๐ฎ๐ญ ๐ญ๐ก๐ž ๐Ÿ๐š๐œ๐ญ ๐ญ๐ก๐š๐ญ ๐ข๐ง ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’ ๐ฆ๐š๐ง๐ฒ ๐ƒ๐ž๐ฆ๐จ๐œ๐ซ๐š๐ญ๐ฌ ๐๐ข๐ ๐ง๐จ๐ญ ๐ก๐š๐ฏ๐ž ๐จ๐ฉ๐ž๐ง ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ข๐ฆ๐š๐ซ๐ข๐ž๐ฌ?

๐ƒ๐ž๐ฆ๐จ๐œ๐ซ๐š๐ญ๐ข๐œ ๐ฏ๐จ๐ญ๐ž๐ซ๐ฌ ๐ก๐š๐ ๐ง๐จ ๐ฉ๐š๐ซ๐ญ๐ข๐œ๐ข๐ฉ๐š๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง ๐ข๐ง ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ข๐ฆ๐š๐ซ๐ข๐ž๐ฌ ๐๐ฎ๐ž ๐ญ๐จ ๐ฉ๐š๐ซ๐ญ๐ฒ ๐ฅ๐ž๐š๐๐ž๐ซ๐ฌ' ๐๐ž๐œ๐ข๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ง๐ฌ.

๐ˆ๐ง ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’ ๐…๐ฅ๐จ๐ซ๐ข๐๐š ๐š๐ง๐ ๐ƒ๐ž๐ฅ๐š๐ฐ๐š๐ซ๐ž ๐ƒ๐ž๐ฆ๐จ๐œ๐ซ๐š๐ญ๐ข๐œ ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ž๐ฌ๐ข๐๐ž๐ง๐ญ๐ข๐š๐ฅ ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ข๐ฆ๐š๐ซ๐ข๐ž๐ฌ ๐ฐ๐ž๐ซ๐ž ๐œ๐š๐ง๐œ๐ž๐ฅ๐ฅ๐ž๐. ๐€๐ฅ๐š๐ฌ๐ค๐š, ๐ˆ๐ง๐๐ข๐š๐ง๐š, ๐Œ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ฉ๐ฉ๐ข, ๐๐จ๐ซ๐ญ๐ก ๐‚๐š๐ซ๐จ๐ฅ๐ข๐ง๐š, ๐š๐ง๐ ๐“๐ž๐ง๐ง๐ž๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ž๐ž ๐ก๐ž๐ฅ๐ ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ข๐ฆ๐š๐ซ๐ข๐ž๐ฌ ๐›๐ฎ๐ญ ๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ๐ž๐ ๐จ๐ง๐ฅ๐ฒ ๐๐ข๐๐ž๐ง ๐จ๐ง ๐ญ๐ก๐ž ๐›๐š๐ฅ๐ฅ๐จ๐ญ ๐๐ฎ๐ž ๐ญ๐จ ๐ฉ๐š๐ซ๐ญ๐ฒ ๐๐ž๐œ๐ข๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ง๐ฌ. ๐ƒ๐ž๐ฆ๐จ๐œ๐ซ๐š๐ญ๐ข๐œ ๐ฏ๐จ๐ญ๐ž๐ซ๐ฌ ๐ก๐š๐ ๐ง๐จ ๐ฉ๐š๐ซ๐ญ ๐ข๐ง ๐ญ๐ก๐š๐ญ ๐ž๐ฅ๐ž๐œ๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง. ๐€๐ฅ๐ฅ ๐ญ๐ก๐ž ๐ฉ๐จ๐ฅ๐ข๐œ๐ฒ ๐œ๐ก๐š๐ง๐ ๐ž๐ฌ ๐ฐ๐จ๐ง'๐ญ ๐ฆ๐š๐ค๐ž ๐š ๐๐ข๐Ÿ๐Ÿ๐ž๐ซ๐ž๐ง๐œ๐ž ๐ข๐Ÿ ๐ฐ๐ž ๐ฌ๐ž๐ž ๐ญ๐ก๐š๐ญ ๐œ๐š๐ง๐๐ข๐๐š๐ญ๐ž๐ฌ ๐š๐ซ๐ž ๐œ๐ก๐จ๐ฌ๐ž๐ง ๐Ÿ๐จ๐ซ ๐ฎ๐ฌ ๐›๐ฒ ๐ฅ๐ž๐š๐๐ž๐ซ๐ฌ๐ก๐ข๐ฉ.

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Norm Fox's avatar

Iโ€™d also add that this coupled with hiding Bidenโ€™s infirmities and attempts to keep Trump off the ballot are why Democrats canโ€™t get any traction with all of their Trump is a threat to democracyโ€ rhetoric.

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JMan 2819's avatar

Don't forget the government-directed censorship of social media for stories like Covid origins and Hunter's laptop.

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Kathleen McCook's avatar

Sometimes I run across old platform documents that my DEC worked on with such earnestness and feel--now-- it was a charade.

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Jim James's avatar

As an institution, the Democratic Party has become malevolent. It hates this country's guts and everything it is ever stood for. I can't imagine voting for a Democrat again, and I say it as someone who supported Democrats for 40 years. They might as well be honest about how much they hate us.

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ban nock's avatar

I've no idea where the left or right is these days. Donald Trump is further left on many economic issues than many Democrats, and the Republican Party as a whole is further left on some policies than (I'm talking labor here) the Democratic Party.

I guess this essay touches on some of the ideas of Ezra Klein's essay over the weekend about having a bigger tent that includes everyone. The problem is the various factions that want to encompass the Democratic Party are all very very similar. Upper class elites. Nowhere is there ever a recognition of working class issues. They won't even say the word deportation, and until they can say that word, and explain their version of it. The Republicans win.

Today Bernie Sanders is interviewed in the NYT by David Leonhardt. Bernie blames everything on billionaires and "oligarchs", he used to scapegoat millionaires and billionaires. I figure he doesn't want to alienate his base. He also supports amnesty for 10 million.

Sixty percent of voters are working class, and of the 40% who do have a degree half of them are working at jobs that don't require a degree, often at wages very similar to their working class brethren. It would behoove the Democratic Party to get it's stuff together.

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Ronda Ross's avatar

Great comment. I also read Klein. The failure to address mass migration, with anything more than a passing reference was mind boggling. Dems seem to believe it is resolved. All of Biden's 10 million new arrivals will remain, no valid asylum claim necessary. Only violent criminals should be deported.

The real issue is how mass migration affects Americans in the bottom 2 quintiles of US earners. More than 1 of 2 migrants are welfare dependent. This is obviously caused by willingness to accept substandard wages. States with the largest migrant populations have the lowest manual labor wages, especially CA.

Our knowledge economy and 50% housing inflation during Biden's term, renders moving up the economic ladder for low skilled Americans nearly impossible, long before our lousy education system will doom many of their children to generational poverty. More so for migrants lacking English skills, even more sparsely educated.

The US stats of the ever expanding underclass are mind boggling. In 1970 , the US had a population just over 200 million, roughly 8 million were Food Stamp dependent. Today our population stands at roughly 335 million with 42 million Food Stamp dependent. In a little over a 1/2 century, the total US population has increased a little over 60%, while Food Stamp use has increased 5X.

Medicaid numbers are equally sad, CA at 40% enrollment, NY at 35%. 2 of the 4 most populated US states, have large swaths of residents too poor to contribute to their own healthcare costs. We must end the creation of a permanent lower US caste, while we still can.

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JMan 2819's avatar

I have to admit that I spend more time thinking of a "theory of the mind of Ezra Klein" than is healthy. I don't understand how an abundance liberal was a crucial cheerleader for "The Great Awokening" at Vox, and then wrote "Why We're Polarized" in 2020, which was a defense of wokism right as wokism began its descent.

My best guess is that in his heart of hearts he's a true believer in leftist, but is smart enough to realize that most ideologues can't govern effectively.

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MG's avatar

Please, please listen to the Bernie Sanders interview on Joe Rogan. He is 100% cuckoo.

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ban nock's avatar

I thought he was pretty good, Rogan thought so too. Lobbyists, Min wage, taxin Wall Street speculation, lots of good topics. Sounds pretty rational to me.

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MG's avatar

Oh you made me listen again. I could only stomach it for an hour. Joe Rogan is very non-confrontational, that's not his style.

In the first hour, Bernie - who hasn't worked for a private company in 45 years, says:

1. Government should raise kids from birth (free daycare) through 25 (free elementary school, high school, college, and graduate school). And all these workers will be union, receive high pay, and get defined benefit pensions.

2. Businesses can't lay off workers. If Ford automates and doesn't need the workers, they have to pay them anyway.

3. Mandatory 32 hour work week, with pay for 40 hours.

4. Because people have to wait months (?) to see a doctor, anyone who wants to go to medical should go for free (no matter how stupid they are). FYI, it takes 4 years college, 4 years of med school, 2 years of residency, and internship - and that's if you don't specialize. Med school is brutal. His contention that we should all have free health care for all and that we will face a shortage of ten thousands of doctors, doesn't take into account that it takes 12+ years to go through the medical school pipeline.

5. Government should fund all elections. What could go wrong?

He want to take 90% of earnings over a certain amount. He wants to punish innovation and crush the private market.

And that's only in the first hour. He's cuckoo.

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ban nock's avatar

Nothing there I have a problem with though I'd rather we just give people the cash for child care to do with as they wish. I wouldn't want to work with having toddlers. I'd also only pay tuition for kids who place highly on standardized tests.

India which has some of the best docs in the world does it in 5.5 years. I'd open the door to Indian docs if they can pass a competency test.

Key to it all is getting money out of elections. Seems like a heck of a lot of white collar workers don't put in that many hours.

I have a hard time disagreeing with much of what Sanders has to say.

I saw a vid of Vance and he was asked which Dem's policies would he most like to see enacted or something like that. Vance said Sanders, Warren, Gabbard, in that order. Nothing wrong with being pro worker.

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MG's avatar

Oh come on Ben. None of this is workable. It would cost trillions of dollars. He's peddling unicorns, I can't believe you're falling for it.

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ban nock's avatar

Bahn, meaning house or village, nock I don't know, different tone means bird, combined though in bahn nock it means a provincial, hick, bumpkin, unsophisticated from the countryside.

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John Webster's avatar

This analysis raises many important questions, but in the end it's just a theoretical exercise. The wokester Left controls the Democratic party almost everywhere because that faction of the party shows up to vote in primaries at very high percentages; they overwhelm whatever genuine moderates still exist. For its true believers, Wokeism is a badge of moral superiority and confers higher status on them. They won't change - period.

In the end, Democratic candidates in 2026 will only pretend to have moderated on any issues. They may forego the personal insults and other blatant condescension toward non-tribalists. They may smile nicely (e.g. the next Mayor of NYC) and be cordial, but they won't change substantively in any way. The woke Left hopes for a serious economic downturn to win in 2026 and 2028. If - when - they return to power the entire left-wing agenda will be enacted ASAP, not a hint of moderation on any issue.

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Mark H's avatar

So, let's say we're a working class family with an income of $80k per year. In the last few years, food prices have increased 25% or so, electricity 33%, and my landlord installed heat pumps to replace our natural gas heat to get climate incentives. By the way, our rent also went up because an out-of-state non-profit offered to pay 20% above the asking rent so they could house migrants. We have a 13-year old daughter and can only afford clothes from a discount store. Forget about the newest smart phone.

Now, when she doesn't do well and is not popular at school, her teacher says her real problem is that she's actually a boy, and according to the Democratic Party has the right to send her to surgery.

Yes, I'm voting for that.

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ban nock's avatar

That's a working class family with a fairly good income. Many are in the 40K to 50K range. The second quintile topped out at 58K in 2022.

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Lisa's avatar
13hEdited

One core idea that might help is to center the idea of representative Democracy.

Voters are essentially hiring politicians to represent their desires and interests. The power that politicians wield is legitimate because it is supposed to represent the will of the people.

When that power is used instead to push forward pet projects that voters not only didnโ€™t want but actually oppose, that legitimacy is lost. If they donโ€™t get a good choice in the other direction, if theyโ€™re mad enough, theyโ€™ll take a bad choice.

Politics does not work well when itโ€™s used to impose personal moral values on the unwilling. Shifting views is what persuasion is for. People who disagree resist and get angry when forced, whether itโ€™s the idea that life begins at birth or that high school sports should be by gender identity.

Persuasion works. It lets society evolve and find consensus. You have to do the work.

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Val's avatar

After Trump won easily and signed executive orders in January that pushed back on illegal immigration, too much outsourcing, gender ideology and woke racism, I thought the woke left would at least be less shrill. After all, 70-80% of Americans agreed with him these particular points.

Decisions barring men from competing in womenโ€™s sports and upholding bans on gender affirming care seemed to support the idea that the US and UK, at least, might be starting to see sense.

I was wrong.

Blue states are doubling down on โ€œsanctuary stateโ€ status, as though confused children in need of help sorting out their very real problems are equal to refugees from Adolf Hitler, who really just need drugs and mastectomies.

The party of womenโ€™s rights defines them almost solely as โ€œthe right to buy contraceptives and have an abortion.โ€ Fair competition, female-only spaces, and being called a woman (not a cis-woman) are fascist ideas. A man gets nominated for best actress? Trans women are women!

They tell us that SNAP benefits should be valid for soda and processed garbage โ€œfoodโ€, because to do otherwise would create an โ€œunderclassโ€ at the grocery store. Iโ€™m at a loss to see how members of the Whole Foods class could ever think itโ€™s a good idea to raise kids on a diet of Coke and Lunchables, where sugary roll ups count as fruit. They certainly wouldnโ€™t feed that stuff to their own kids in a regular basis. And they certainly look at parents who do as not measuring up.

Math is racist. Good grammar is racist. Being on time is white supremacy.

And meanwhile, weโ€™ve given our manufacturing know-how to a communist country so that corporations could increase profits.

And when the pushback comes? Thereโ€™s no contemplation, no soul-searching. Just navel-gazing and proclamations that anyone who disagrees is a deplorable fascist.

And the Dems continue to bleat that theyโ€™re the only ones capable of saving us all.

I know the Rs have huge problems, but as I keep saying, Iโ€™m more afraid of the Dems right now.

You canโ€™t make this stuff up. Any of it.

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Vicky & Dan's avatar

Good article (as usual.....best $5 we spend each month)

We want to add something not covered that we believe shaped a lot of voters.'

That is that in major liberal publications (e.g., NYT and even WaPo) articles and comments to articles communicate the following by progressives:

And that is that all of our problems are due to white people (who are all racist), men (hopeless), baby boomers (stole all of our country's wealth), financially successful people (not the rich, just ordinary middle class folks) and police officers.

And Trump said to all of these people: "You're great!"

Talk of positions on issues matters, of course, but the major issue for people in life is their pride. Trump made Americans feel proud. Progressives tell us we should feel ashamed.

Look at the comments that state "low information voters," or "people voting against their own interests," or "uneducated" voters. "Racists," "Authoritarians," etc.

Progressives believe they are morally superior to everyone else. And people voted to stick that belief in their eyes.

They will vote this way again, despite how much they may dislike Trump, because, as we said, it's their pride that matters the most to people. And progressives still can't admit to how much they look down on other people.

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Deborah's avatar

Another article saying the same things, over and over again, about what the Dems need to do to be relevant. Nothing changes. If you self-described "moderate" Democrats actually want anything to change, then you will need to abandon the existing Democratic party apparatus to the crazy hard Left and start the difficult work of building a new party according to the principles you and others describe and lay out in detail. As a non-Democrat, I don't always agree with your big government-mainstream Democrat policy preferences, but at least we can broadly agree on what the problems are and debate the solutions. No one, including you mainstream Dems, can debate anything with the hard Left. Yes, you will both lose a lot of elections before you get things sorted out but if you actually care, as you say you do, about America, you will do what you can to isolate the dangerous hard Left.

And, if you choose to keep working within the existing Dem party structure, and you want Dem candidates to be more moderate to appeal to centrists and working-class people, you know they can't because they will be attacked instantly by the hard Left for deviating from the party line. And they especially can't even talk to a Republican about anything, much less actually vote with the Republicans, ever, no matter how important the issue, because the Left will almost literally kill them for even thinking about it. Look at the stupid standoff on the continuing resolution going on right now. The Dem demands are ridiculous, they are being offered a clean resolution and the opportunity to discuss what they want and they are rejecting it in favor of hurting everyone in sight so they can grovel at the feet of the hard Left that wants Resistance! no matter what the cost to groups they claim to care about. This will never end until all of you moderates leave the party and let the Lefists tear each other apart all by themselves.

Further, you and others who prescribe ways the Dems might repair their "brand" keep skating around the reality that the official Democrat party positions are poison. We all know they are for making energy scarce and expensive, taking away functional consumer products and replacing them with things that don't work, increasing the cost of living in a single family suburban home to unaffordable levels to force people to live in cities that are unsafe with bad housing and infrastructure. Taking away their children for not wanting them to be subjected to barbaric "transgender" procedures. Forcing their daughters to play sports with boys and men, and for all women to share locker rooms, prisons, and other female facilities with male sex offenders who claim to be women. Violently opposing the removal of criminal illegal aliens, and inviting the world's poor here to freeload on our welfare state and take our jobs. Allowing rampant homelessness, crime, and drug use in cities. Attacking the police for doing their jobs, so making the community unsafe. Allowing the bureauocracy to grow huge and unaccountable, using its awesome power to go after people who are their political opposition (they call them "enemies"). Opposing common-sense election integrity laws, like presenting ID to vote. Using environmental regulation to stop building anything, anywhere, and running up the cost astronomically for anything that does get built. There is a lot more, too much for this space. People know this is what the Dems stand for, they may say they deny it but their actions speak otherwise. This is who the modern Democratic party is, and the more voters realize this, the more will leave the party. Many of these issues are 70/30 or 80/20 with the Dems on the 20 or 30% side. But a lot of voters don't really think about who and what they are voting for,m though I think that is changing.

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ban nock's avatar

Remember, no matter how we vote, or try to influence politicians, when someone who donates 7 figures speaks, politicians listen. The wealthy have different priorities and the donor class is quite a bit to the left of voters.

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George Phillies's avatar

The Democratic Party does have another alternative, one that many Democrats will not like to hear. At the Presidential level, a minority party can on occasion elect a Grover Cleveland, a Woodrow Wilson, or a Dwight David Eisenhower. The rest of the time, it can choose to resemble the Republican Party of the late 1950s, whose leadership as seen on television on election eve seemed to have no thought of taking control of Congress. Some number of politicians will hold office, the consultant class will continue to be gainlessly employed, supportive voters in places where Democrats are a majority can cheer for their winners and say critical things about voters of the other party, elections will be as thrilling as elections to the Massachusetts legislature, and politics will be in a state of stasis..

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Michael D. Purzycki's avatar

On the economic front, applying the abundance mentality to issues abundance advocates sometimes overlook could help:

Lower medical school tuition dramatically to help get more doctors into the workforce, and make it easier for nurse practitioners to work without doctors attached.

Keep drilling for oil to keep gasoline prices down, while also filling the SPR to react quickly to price spikes.

If an area suffers from high food prices but has lots of land with nothing but abandoned buildings and empty space, make it easier to clean them up and turn them into farmland.

Some simple regulations can help, like capping the prices health insurance companies are allowed to charge enrollees, or the interest rates banks are allowed to charge homeowners. Public options can help, too: health insurance, postal savings bank.

Dems should also look for new ways to tax the affluent beyond just raising income tax rates at the top. Like taxing financial transactions, cryptocurrencies, big banks' assets, corporations' spending on AI.

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