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JMan 2819's avatar

Cruelty, like racism, is defined by Democrats as "disagreeing with Democrats."

- Over a million babies aborted every year is "healthcare" not cruelty.

- Plunging about a third of the population into poverty because of the Sexual Revolution is "freedom", not cruelty.

- Defunding the police and giving the tiny minority of black criminals more power in black neighborhoods is "empathy", not cruelty.

- Defending Islam - and FGM, honor killings, mandatory veiling, rape of unveiled women, coerced marriage, underage marriage, and polygamy - is "multiculturalism", not cruelty.

Heyjude's avatar

No discussion about Democrats and their policies on immigration and ICE is complete without bringing up the elephant in the room: sanctuary cities and states.

The first step must be to stop the sanctuary nonsense. Protecting criminal illegals from deportation renders suspect anything else Democrats say about immigration. Nobody will believe Democrats until they denounce the farce of sanctuary cities.

Don’t want ICE in your streets? Turn over illegals detained by local law enforcement to federal authorities.

Jim James's avatar

My favorite on the signs is "science is real." This from "progressives" who think that a man can become a woman by taking drugs and getting cosmetic surgery. LOL

Frank Lee's avatar

I will continue to encourage Democrats to jump on the “abolish ICE” movement. It is absolute campaign gold for Republicans. There is nothing kind about it though. The negative impacts to US citizens and legal residents is real and profound… a lack of housing being one. But there are tremendous negative impacts to the home countries of theses illegal immigrants as they bleed their population and despotic tyrannical regimes have less internal opposition. Democrat behavior here is all performative and lacks pragmatism. Their destructive absurdity is cruel beyond anything we see from ICE. Because they are such a risk in power, we need to keep encouraging them to show their destructive absurdity so the voters are well informed.

JMan 2819's avatar

"There is nothing kind about it though. The negative impacts to US citizens and legal residents is real and profound"

Yup, and liberal white women in upper-middle class neighborhoods don't have to bear the costs massive immigration. It's just a virtue signal for them. Working class blacks do bear the costs of immigration and they seem to be bigger immigration hawks than whites, perhaps because they don't have to fear the charge of racism. I don't think the Democrats realize that this, and moreover, that it will drive the realignment of black voters to the Republican Party. The correct mental model of low-information black voters is identical to low-information white voters plus having been told their entire life that all white people are racist.

Edit: also, the George Floyd 2.0 does not work when the person is (1) the aggressor, and (2) white.

KDB's avatar

This is a leadership competence moment for Democrats: disappoint the loudest activists and refuse the maximalist slogan. You can oppose abuses without delegitimizing enforcement itself. The message should be: enforcement is necessary. Misconduct is not. And accountability does not mean physically obstructing federal agents doing lawful work. Passive protest is legitimate; aggressive interference is dangerous and predictably escalatory. Then back the message with visible accountability and a real systems fix: clear standards, training, oversight, and consequences for violations. Plus faster hearing,clearer rules, and workable legal immigration and assimilation (starting with English). That’s how you avoid another “Defund” mess while still addressing real problems in how enforcement is carried out

JMan 2819's avatar

Civil disobedience back in MLK Jr.’s time meant getting arrested to juxtapose the heartlessness of a legal policy with the cruelty of punishing protestors. But MLK jr. was a Christian and protestors today are secular. So they just try to kill people they disagree with as “civil disobedience.”

KDB's avatar

Yes protests back in the 60s were mostly there to persuade the other side. Today the protests are mostly to rally or perform for the base. These two ways have very different impacts.

Arrr Bee's avatar

It’s funny how often the “human kindness” folx are also completely unmoved by the Islamic regime massacring thousands of protesting Iranians, and practically excited about the kind of “Palestinian resistance” that involves raping, torturing, wounding, murdering and abducting thousands of Israeli civilians.

It really has zero to do with “kindness” or “no human is illegal” and everything to do with them being illiberal, hating democracy, hating the majority of Americans (and their allies) deeply, and wishing suffering and death on those masses.

Mark Abel's avatar

This view of immigration is too simplistic. Yes, we need an immigration enforcement agency. Yes, we don’t want people to cross our borders willy-nilly. But they wouldn’t be coming if American employers didn’t hire them and American landlords rent to them. Sending hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of masked men into a community to arrest people illegally there is more political theater than law enforcement.

What we need is comprehensive immigration reform. There are conservative proposals that could effectively staunch the flow of illegal entry and remove people here illegally. For example, employers who did not check the registry of foreign nationals legally entitled to work here would be punished. A survey could determine the number of foreign workers needed by employment sectors, and a government agency could establish quotas. People already here or wanting entry could be vetted and approved for work here for a designated period of years. Such proposals would deter illegal entry and cause people here without a work permit to leave. Republicans don’t want to surrender a wedge issue that delivers voters to them. So nobody is talking seriously about solving the problem.

MG's avatar

You know employers are prohibited from checking 'valid' paperwork, right? Here in our city an illegal immigrant was HR for a company, and never submitted any of the illegal employee paperwork (so they couldn't be charged). So sick of this gaming of the system. If someone sneaks across the border and forges paperwork, start there.

Jim James's avatar

If you actually want to penalize employers for hiring illegals (which I doubt), then don't make it illegal to check their citizenship documents.

John Webster's avatar

I agree that heavily penalizing employers for hiring illegal workers is by far the best way to minimize illegal immigration as opposed to the current ICE tactics. But the opposition to that idea comes from two groups:

(1) Chamber of Commerce Republicans who want an unlimited supply of cheap, compliant workers in order to minimize labor costs. For all his tough talk on illegal immigration, Trump has not called for heavily penalizing employers.

(2) Left-wing activists and Democratic politicians who regard these illegal workers - overwhelmingly low-skilled, minimally educated, low-income - as future Democratic voters.

Jim James's avatar

e-verify is a joke, and everyone knows it

ban nock's avatar

If you cross reference with Social Security numbers and driver's license it is almost perfect. People who want to hire illegally, don't use E verify. Places that use it like many fast food, Walmer, Home Depot, etc have just about no illegal employees.

For quite a few jobs they simply can't have illegal employees, LPNs and RNs for example.

Jim James's avatar

You clearly have never hired anyone for basic labor, nor do you know anyone who has. Social Security fraud is rampant and totally unpoliced, and it's actually a quasi-criminal offense for an employer who sees it to do anything about it. If you somehow think that this hasn't been built into the system by both parties, you are living in la-la land.

That you and others would make those statements only shows how outlandishly disconnected you are from how it actually works. And you know what? I don't think that you actually care. What I have briefly mentioned is common knowledge in places that none of the earnest make-believe do-gooders care to look or care about. Really, it's a joke. That emperor is naked and always has been. You are going to "cross reference." Yikes!

Sorry to be this harsh. Maybe I should just laugh at you like I laugh at the "progressive" gender bullshit, but I'm not in that mood at the moment. Stuff like this is why the Soviet Union collapsed. Everyone knew that everything was a lie, and finally a nuclear power plant went haywire, and the game was over. That's how far gone we are. Just waiting for the unavoidable event that cannot be bullshitted away.

ban nock's avatar

I hired mostly Mexicans for 25 years. Not only hired but signed the front of the checks, submitted 941s quarterly W2s etc. I pretty much am familiar with all aspects of the issue. I'm not sure why you seem angry over things you don't understand. I've pretty much seen everything.

Jim James's avatar

My sincere apologies. I have been really upset about the Minneapolis stuff and it's coming out in some odd ways. I have some farmer friends and we have talked about e-verify. I am cynical about it, and my cynicism covers both parties.

SubstaqueJacque's avatar

Great comment! These are exactly the strange bedfellows who will ensure an endless immigration flow - progressives and capitalists, despite their hatred for each other.

Ronda Ross's avatar

Dems keep insisting they object to ICE tactics. That is a red herring. They object to 90% of US Immigration Law. Dems desperately desire all current and future non violent immigrants remain in the US permanently. No questions asked.

Dems demand an end to interior enforcement, not out of beneficence, but because without immigrants, Dems would soon be the permanent US House minority. That is likely a precursor to Whig status.

Nor does the game plan probably end with killing Interior Enforcement. Killing the filibuster and granting mass amnesty, that includes citizenship, is the Dem football crossing the end zone. 2028 may be their last, best chance.

Dems have no choice. Americans have voted with their feet en mass. And they keep moving from Blue States to Red States. Nor does a reverse seem likely.

Mamdani's plans for control of NYC housing stock, free child care and free public buses has "TIMBER" written all over it. Just as the number of Texas finance workers surpasses NYC, and the Lone Star State starts a new Stock Exchange.

In CA, the State budget is probably past redemption. CA spent $100 billion, around the year 2000, with a population of 34 million. This year the budget is a staggering $349 billion with a population under 40 million. In 25 years, spending increased 3.5X, while the population grew 20%.

At the current rate, by 2050 CA will spend far more than $1 trillion dollars a year to govern 48 million people. Those numbers do not include more than $1 trillion dollars in unfunded pension liabilities. The hole is so deep, Billionaires realizing they are the only life boat left, are astutely beginning to flee.

The CA budget has exploded for the same reason NYC housing now requires vast more subsidy. Millions of American taxpayers that utilized few government subsidies, have fled. To the extent they were replaced, it was by those with far less income and far more need of all types of government support.

IL and Minnesota are just as undesirable. Parts of Minneapolis have yet to burst into flame for the 2nd time in 7 years, but the day is still young. All before we get to the massive public fraud likely to be revealed over the next 3 years, because someone is finally interested in ending it.

For the Dem Party, the next few years are 4th and long. Negating immigration law is their Hail Mary.

Larry Schweikart's avatar

All too sensible you guys. Good luck selling this to the rabid bat-wing of the party. I disagree with the notion that ICE is engaging in "cruel" tactics. In fact, I think they've been remarkably restrained. If someone blows an air-horn in my ear, they will not have teeth. I'm 75, or it would be worse, as they could probably outrun me.

Minsky's avatar

"If someone blows an air-horn in my ear, they will not have teeth."

Not if it's a poorly trained ICE officer who just felt like messing with you, though. In that case they might just shoot you in the face for funsies. At present, there wouldn't be any real consequences for doing so, provided they say they did it for the sake of the guy with the pardon power, right?

Minsky's avatar

Some more videos of ‘restraint’:

ICE holding children hostage in order to bait their parents out of their homes: https://x.com/josheakle/status/2011543062011593097/mediaviewer

ICE using flash-bang grenades against protesters and reporters: https://x.com/josheakle/status/2011543062011593097/mediaviewer

(See any ‘air horns’? I don’t)

And a nice testimonial to boot: https://x.com/StatusCoup/status/2011648909748093077?s=20

…and Trump pardons criminal MAGA-fan for *second* time: https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/16/politics/wanda-vazquez-trump-pardon-puerto-rico

While White House’s uses literal neo-Nazi messages to recruit for ICE: https://theintercept.com/2026/01/13/dhs-ice-white-nationalist-neo-nazi/

SubstaqueJacque's avatar

And yeah, sorry - went to a Beto O'Rourke rally once and had nothing but air horns in my ear from the opposition who came to ruin it. I was in the back rank with a few other participants in the democratic process who were just trying to hear the man speak, since the protesters were forcing everyone closer and closer to the stage otherwise. The cops just stood there and let us get harassed and deafened, so unfortunately, that tactic does not belong to just one side.

Minsky's avatar

Only one side has a large paramilitary force answering to a president who gives mass pardons to people who riot in his name, though, and whose DOJ is neither interested in performing impartial investigations into incidents involving the use of deadly force by a member of that force on a civilian, (https://www.weau.com/2026/01/14/justice-department-sees-no-basis-criminal-investigation-into-ice-officer-who-shot-killed-renee-good-official-says/?outputType=amp) but has in fact made clear that they will go after the families of the civilians in question if they generate bad press for them. (https://thehill.com/opinion/lindseys-lens/5689158-minneapolis-ice-agent-resignation/amp/)

Brent Nyitray's avatar

All of this assumes that Democrats are not in favor of open borders. That this is a framing issue, not an actual substantive policy disagreement between the two parties.

I am not convinced that is true.

Unchecked illegal immigration helps Democrats bolster their population in deep blue cities which are experiencing organic population loss, thus increasing their representation in Congress.

Dale McConnaughay's avatar

Texeira again nails it. More like a 95-5 than 80-20 issue, and a harbinger to a less than overwhelming midterm resurgence for the Democratuc Party if they can't, or won't, change their tune before then.

50 Bravo's avatar

Ruy, the problem is that the rational democrat leadership has left the building. A three party affair (in which one party is composed of Kennedy democrats another is composed of the kamikaze who now run the democrat party and the third is composed of those who aren’t lemmings) will keep conservatives in the drivers seat. That may not be your preference but right now it’s the only one that makes sense.

Betsy Chapman's avatar

This extremist behavior may be the last gasps of a dying party. To hate the president so much to take the opposite position, and protect criminals is a guaranteed loser for democrats. Where are the grown-ups? Where are the rational leaders?

Who is being taken into custody:

* Violent crime (homicide, assault, domestic violence) or gang affiliation: 75

* Sex Offenses, Rape, Criminal Sexual Conduct (sub-category of violent crime): 28

* Fraud, Theft, Illegal Reentry, Trafficking: 45

* Drugs: 57

* DWI: 7

https://www.fox9.com/news/ice-minnesota-who-worst-worst-arrested-jan-2026

John Webster's avatar

I agree that calling on ICE to have a sense of proportion and restraint is what Democrats should support. Sorry, that's not going to happen. I live about 20 miles from all the craziness in the Twin Cities, and it's clear beyond all doubt that any aspiring Democratic politician here (and most everywhere else) has to be on board with Abolish ICE. They want no enforcement of immigration laws, period. If you enter the country you get to stay forever and receive public benefits immediately, and eventually citizenship and the right to vote.

ban nock's avatar

I don't see any solutions on the horizon.

Two very powerful constituencies like things just as they are. 1. All businesses. The price of labor cuts into profits. Even industries that employ no illegal labor benefit in that there are many more legal employees at a much lower price. 2. The upper middle class who enjoy a servant class unimaginable in prior years. Cleaning house is no longer done. Likewise lawn mowing, and other yard chores. Most workers at restaurants and food delivery are sans social security numbers.

Elites run countries, they are the most intelligent, they control entertainment, academia, and the media. Elites run for office, own businesses, and pay politicians.

Already I hear screaming and crying that we need more mechanics, and construction workers and blah blah blah. They want trade school for something a non English speaker learn to do in 2 hours. Anything rather than pay well enough to entice Gen Z away from the game console.

I should kick back and hire a cleaning crew, my wife would consider me a hero.

dennis mcconaghy's avatar

This piece is why I am a subscriber, even though I am no "liberal".

Your realism and lucidity are to be commended.

But of course the leftist America, inclusive of the NYT , CNN etal, are incapable of embracing it.

The default is Trump.