We are old (mid-70s; i.e., baby boomers), white, one of us is a male the other a former police officer (first female officer in Seattle), and middle class with a comfortable income.
Progressives hate us. Look at comments in NYT and WaPo. We are to blame for everything, according to them. Express a view that is not consistent with the progressive party line and the hatred toward us comes out....strongly.
So, we 50-year voters for Democrats, switched to Trump. Why would we vote for a Progressive (i.e., Harris) when her party hates us and blames us for all of life's problems?
In every forum we had access to we tried to warn progressives that not only were they turning off us, but also the nation. But they are too in love with the warm glow they have of feeling morally superior to the rest of us. So they lost. And took the Democratic Party down with them.
Very true. I give people reasons for why some of us have left the Democratic party and they attack me, not my points: people who didn't vote for Harris are stupid, low-information types who vote against their interests and obviously don't understand "what's at stake."
I tell them that colleges rejected my (white) kids in favor of less-qualified non-white and non-Asian students. They tell me that's fair because minority students faced unequal opportunities in the past. True, discrimination happened, but how does discriminating against teenagers in the 2020s fix what happened before their grandparents were born?
I could write just about the same thing as you, except I left the Dem's when I first voted for McGovern (haha). Then I voted R for many years, till I began voting Independent, voted Libertarian several times. Never voted for Trump, vowed not to this past time until I got so tired of the lies, hatred & people in my face telling me if I voted for anyone but Harris I was voting for Hitler. Then on the day I was heading out to vote independent I read a daily newsletter that someone sends, who is totally left-biased, & he posted a link to Axios, another left-bias, & his lead-in said: almost half of Trump voters think if he doesn't win there should be violence. I followed the link, where it showed the graph, saying just slightly over 2 out of 5 say that. I got angry, got back on line & told him he should rephrase that saying LESS than half think that. He wouldn't change his wording. THAT MADE ME GO VOTE FOR TRUMP. And I came back & told him. He said, as a writer, he always wants to influence his readers, but never so in that way. HAHAHA!
I read your comments often, you both have common sense, that is obvious, even though I don't always agree. 'Haughty eyes' is definitely an American problem, on all sides, God bless.
The Dems need a new leader. At this point, the party itself is incapable of reaching any kind of sensible position that will win back voters.
Dems cater to the extremists among them. Newsom and Seth Moulton are perfect examples. Both meekly announced that allowing males in women’s sports was unfair, and then backed down when the extremists started to howl.
Yesterday, the left-leaning New York Times ran an article about closings of youth transgender medicine clinics. It uses language like “care being taken away” and implies great cruelty at the idea of not allowing children to access puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and etc. The comments are 98-99% in favour of keeping this so-called “care” away from children (and the upvotes are well past 99%). Yet the leaders of the Democratic party speak and act as though drugging children and cutting off their breasts is “on the right side of history.”
They take the same extremist stance on open borders and woke racism.
It won’t stop until and unless a new leader steps in. Kamala Harris was not that person. Neither is Newsom — these two, along with Mamdani, represent why Dems lose nationally. Not to mention the crumpled likes of Cuomo and Adams, who will deliver New York to Mamdani unless one backs down, which almost certainly won’t happen (hope I’m wrong). They all represent the blind ambition and hubris that drives the Dems. None of them is a leader. They’re self-serving mediocrities who excel primarily at failing upwards.
I know the Republicans can be just as bad. But we’re not talking about them here. And the Trump administration is absolutely right to be going after gender and race ideology.
Hear, hear! One of the great evils, staring us in the face today, in my strong opinion, is the deliberate confusion being brought upon our youth (gender affirming care for minors), and one does not need to know anything about the medical profession to know this. One who acquiesces on this issue, again, IMO, is so caught up in this world (greed, pride, lust, etc), I pity them, as they might have a ton of intelligence, but zero wisdom. Without wisdom, intelligence is of little value. Bible = Wisdom
Dems handed families earning 3X US median family income $7500 when they bought $80K luxury EV SUVs. Most US lower and middle earners buy 3 cars over the course of decades, before they spend $80K on autos. Worse, Dems spent extraordinary effort attempting to forgive up to $40K of school debt of married MDs, JDs , MBAs , , , earning nearly 3X of US families, before the ripe age of 30. On what planet, is handing tens of thousands of tax payer dollars to the best educated and highest compensated Americans moderate?
In some Blue States, children are still being socially transitioned in schools, without parental knowledge, let alone consent. The school maintains clothing the children change into upon arrival. They use a different name during the school day, and the bathroom of their choice. Elementary and middle school classmates are instructed it is a secret class project, and not to mention the change to anyone outside the class. Lawsuits abound, as parents become aware of the subterfuge.
Last year, Reps introduced a bill that expedited the deportation of non citizens who confess or are convicted of sex crimes or spousal battery, in a US Court. The law did not apply to those accused. The bill is necessary because in many cities, non citizen sexual predators and wife beaters who serve their time, are allowed to walk out of jail, with no notice to ICE, free to reoffend on US soil. One of the hallmarks of the West has always been the protection of women and children, no longer in many Blue States and cities. 170 Dems voted against the legislation.
Not a single Dem objected to handing tens of thousands of dollars to America's wealthiest families in the name of Green Energy and college loan forgiveness. Nor do any voice objections to transitioning elementary children without parental notice. A handful supported the expedited removal of convicted or self confessed foreign rapists, pedophiles and wife beaters. It is easier to find a live unicorn in DC than a Dem that will admit, for the first time ever, more than 1/2 of the US undocumented receive a variety of welfare benefits and other subsidies.
Other Progressive examples abound. Only lousy messaging by Reps has saved Dems from enduring the brunt of their self induced Progressive Purgatories. Before Dems can reunite the Center with the Far Left, a Center in the Dem Party, must once again exist.
You always bring excellent data to the discussion Madame Ross. I don't question it, but, that's probably because I mostly always agree with you. I wonder if you are ever called out for sources, as I am, within my own family, lol, God bless.
Much of the above is from Joel Kotkin a liberal demographer at Chapman University He loathes Trump. Mr. Kotkin has a team of grad students who do impeccable research. He is CA Institution, who does not attempt to hide the state of CA, and now the US. Nor does he charge to read the pieces he often writes for Unherd , Spiked and various other publications.
Both factions are fighting over the support of what Musa al-Gharbi calls the symbolic capitalists, the elite that writes and litigates and deals in ideas. The problem is that there aren't enough to go around, so they compete over words, and who can be most woke. I can't imagine the D party not making gains in the midterms, less than a united party might make but enough to reassure themselves. I see no signs of enlightenment.
I like to frame these "factions" more as "unwinnable civil wars." You have
*Illegal aliens & their defenders/mayors v. inner city residents (mostly black) who are now being denied their lawfully-ordained services which are spent on illegals. This is more than "let's work together: two dogs, one bone.
*The anti-Israel/pro-pale/pro-Hamas wing that is on the verge of electing "intifadists" as mayor of both NY and Minneapolis v. Jews/Israel. Democrats are counting on the fact that no matter how much they abuse the Jewish voters, they will be loyal. Maybe. But there is a point for everything . . .
*The AI Techbros v. green climate change group. The fact that AI is absolutely exploding while the Trump admin is deconstructing the entire useless green energy scam. No way these groups coexist.
*The boys are girls transoids vs. biological sexes, which, again, has no real middle ground.
*The Biden apologists saying that he didn't do anything wrong with the autopen and other regulations vs. those who just want him to go away. One group will defend, one will run.
There are variations, but I don't see ANY reconciliation between these extremes.
Brilliantly diagnostic essay until I hit this "the most plausible path I can see to bridge these divides and reach more independents is for both the left and the center to drop their cultural, foreign policy, and single-issue demands and concentrate on restoring Democrats as the party of economic uplift for working-class Americans." Could you be more specific as to a) by "drop their demands," do you mean downplay, cease to advocate for, or ???, and b) does "single issue" modify all of theses issues or are "single issues" a separate category, and c) could you give 3-4 specific examples for each side (progressives and centrists) of the issues that you think they should drop. Finally, I love the unifying message but don't you need a combination of more specific proposals plus the legislative requirements for passage and implementation? With these additions, even at the cost of some length, I'd send this essay everywhere.
Maybe anti-Trump rhetoric is not the way to go? Trump is doing some good things and maybe should admit what is good and build on his successes because that is what we independents voted for. Maybe soften some of the extreme moves he’s made.?
While I understand the logic of this argument, I still think that by vehemently bashing the hard left, moderates could bring more swing voters into the party than they would lose by leftists leaving. If progressives who are pragmatic on cultural issues (those who see the need for border security as well much more humane deportations than Trump's, the need for cheap oil and gas as well as renewables, and the need to respect parents freaked out by YGT) unite with the moderates, they can sideline the hard left and win back independents and former Democrats.
As I recall the shellacking in 1968, Nixon /Agnew et al, rerouted the Dem. Party from Chevy owners to Identify Politics?! Maybe the recent drubbing will likewise reorient its focus and messaging?! I agree with better informed others that a vote for DJT was less one for the Republican Party- now eviscerated in my view,- and more a vote against both parties who morphed into a reflection of each other. As with nearly all sports, when you’ve lost the middle, you’ve lost.
Nice try but one of the few things both factions of the party agree on is how much they hate most if not all of the policies that will actually achieve the agenda you propose. The proof? However imperfectly, the Republicans are delivering much of this agenda amid vicious and violent opposition from a Democrat party that is united in hatred of anything Trump does just because it's him. How will voters ever believe the Dems are serious about secure borders, law and order, no more identity politics or transgender when the Dems are out there every day fighting, sometimes literally, against every one of those policies? It is ludicrous to imagine that the current party would ever endorse common sense policies and even more absurd to imagine voters will believe they mean any of it.
"Good housing, medical care, education, and a secure retirement shouldn’t be luxuries reserved for the rich. They should be within reach for anyone who puts in the effort. Americans should be able to support their families with full-time employment and enjoy their life with a middle-class income. Democratic policies..."
What policies? Is whinging on about Trump going to build an affordable house? I can't get a single Dem to state specifically what they are offering voters to make their lives better.
The connection I see with the plight of the Democrat party is part of the more universal flaw of the left worldview.
These are people that despise competition on merit, and seek the advantage. They are also more prone to emotional disorders and poor emotional regulation skills. The result of that is the pursuit of short-term, feel-good returns rather than enduring challenges that produce long-term improvements.
In a real Darwinist world where every animal except humans, but only for the last 150 years or so, has existed primarily in a struggle to survive another day and procreate, Democrats are the collection of the people that in those days of survival first would reside on the lower side of capability.
In general Democrats reject the struggle and thus become weaker and less capable to compete.
This is the general flaw of collectivism too. The myth of collective equality and egalitarianism results in declining productive capability. Rewards based on individual productive merit where there is copious competition... that results in greater growth in productive capability.
Democrats have surrounded themselves with safe spaces, protections' fealty and support to the point that they are too weak to compete. Meanwhile their strategy to negatively character assassinate Republicans and put them at constant disadvantage with a system stacked in Democrat favor, has made the Republicans stronger and more capable.
Individualism, freedom, liberty, democracy, capitalism... these concepts are those supporting a system that spirals upward in increasingly advancing capability from competition on real merit. Democrats recoil from a system of real merit and thus find themselves decreasing in capability. In their desperation they can only double-down on increasing their negative attack strategy of their opponent. It is all they have.
The Democratic factions are Left and Crazy. They should not pretend to be Center but provide a left alternative. Best way is Affluence agenda minus climate change. Add in some Affordability and Populist Fusion.
Other than pollsters, who have served no one any good for a long time, who have the Dems talked to who are independents or Dems disaffected voters? Maybe if the Dems just disbanded the circle firing squad, it would be a step in thee right direction.
Only time will tell with Spanberger. Her politics reflected her district. Already starting to change as she pursues statewide office. Of course, will be interesting to see how she chooses to govern.
We are old (mid-70s; i.e., baby boomers), white, one of us is a male the other a former police officer (first female officer in Seattle), and middle class with a comfortable income.
Progressives hate us. Look at comments in NYT and WaPo. We are to blame for everything, according to them. Express a view that is not consistent with the progressive party line and the hatred toward us comes out....strongly.
So, we 50-year voters for Democrats, switched to Trump. Why would we vote for a Progressive (i.e., Harris) when her party hates us and blames us for all of life's problems?
In every forum we had access to we tried to warn progressives that not only were they turning off us, but also the nation. But they are too in love with the warm glow they have of feeling morally superior to the rest of us. So they lost. And took the Democratic Party down with them.
We tried.
Very true. I give people reasons for why some of us have left the Democratic party and they attack me, not my points: people who didn't vote for Harris are stupid, low-information types who vote against their interests and obviously don't understand "what's at stake."
I tell them that colleges rejected my (white) kids in favor of less-qualified non-white and non-Asian students. They tell me that's fair because minority students faced unequal opportunities in the past. True, discrimination happened, but how does discriminating against teenagers in the 2020s fix what happened before their grandparents were born?
Why would I vote for this?
You nailed it!
Thanks. So did you!
I could write just about the same thing as you, except I left the Dem's when I first voted for McGovern (haha). Then I voted R for many years, till I began voting Independent, voted Libertarian several times. Never voted for Trump, vowed not to this past time until I got so tired of the lies, hatred & people in my face telling me if I voted for anyone but Harris I was voting for Hitler. Then on the day I was heading out to vote independent I read a daily newsletter that someone sends, who is totally left-biased, & he posted a link to Axios, another left-bias, & his lead-in said: almost half of Trump voters think if he doesn't win there should be violence. I followed the link, where it showed the graph, saying just slightly over 2 out of 5 say that. I got angry, got back on line & told him he should rephrase that saying LESS than half think that. He wouldn't change his wording. THAT MADE ME GO VOTE FOR TRUMP. And I came back & told him. He said, as a writer, he always wants to influence his readers, but never so in that way. HAHAHA!
I read your comments often, you both have common sense, that is obvious, even though I don't always agree. 'Haughty eyes' is definitely an American problem, on all sides, God bless.
The Dems need a new leader. At this point, the party itself is incapable of reaching any kind of sensible position that will win back voters.
Dems cater to the extremists among them. Newsom and Seth Moulton are perfect examples. Both meekly announced that allowing males in women’s sports was unfair, and then backed down when the extremists started to howl.
Yesterday, the left-leaning New York Times ran an article about closings of youth transgender medicine clinics. It uses language like “care being taken away” and implies great cruelty at the idea of not allowing children to access puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and etc. The comments are 98-99% in favour of keeping this so-called “care” away from children (and the upvotes are well past 99%). Yet the leaders of the Democratic party speak and act as though drugging children and cutting off their breasts is “on the right side of history.”
They take the same extremist stance on open borders and woke racism.
It won’t stop until and unless a new leader steps in. Kamala Harris was not that person. Neither is Newsom — these two, along with Mamdani, represent why Dems lose nationally. Not to mention the crumpled likes of Cuomo and Adams, who will deliver New York to Mamdani unless one backs down, which almost certainly won’t happen (hope I’m wrong). They all represent the blind ambition and hubris that drives the Dems. None of them is a leader. They’re self-serving mediocrities who excel primarily at failing upwards.
I know the Republicans can be just as bad. But we’re not talking about them here. And the Trump administration is absolutely right to be going after gender and race ideology.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/22/us/trump-transgender-healthcare-california-hospitals.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Yk8.J-1f.D_sdOLgByA0h&smid=url-share
Hear, hear! One of the great evils, staring us in the face today, in my strong opinion, is the deliberate confusion being brought upon our youth (gender affirming care for minors), and one does not need to know anything about the medical profession to know this. One who acquiesces on this issue, again, IMO, is so caught up in this world (greed, pride, lust, etc), I pity them, as they might have a ton of intelligence, but zero wisdom. Without wisdom, intelligence is of little value. Bible = Wisdom
What Center?
Dems handed families earning 3X US median family income $7500 when they bought $80K luxury EV SUVs. Most US lower and middle earners buy 3 cars over the course of decades, before they spend $80K on autos. Worse, Dems spent extraordinary effort attempting to forgive up to $40K of school debt of married MDs, JDs , MBAs , , , earning nearly 3X of US families, before the ripe age of 30. On what planet, is handing tens of thousands of tax payer dollars to the best educated and highest compensated Americans moderate?
In some Blue States, children are still being socially transitioned in schools, without parental knowledge, let alone consent. The school maintains clothing the children change into upon arrival. They use a different name during the school day, and the bathroom of their choice. Elementary and middle school classmates are instructed it is a secret class project, and not to mention the change to anyone outside the class. Lawsuits abound, as parents become aware of the subterfuge.
Last year, Reps introduced a bill that expedited the deportation of non citizens who confess or are convicted of sex crimes or spousal battery, in a US Court. The law did not apply to those accused. The bill is necessary because in many cities, non citizen sexual predators and wife beaters who serve their time, are allowed to walk out of jail, with no notice to ICE, free to reoffend on US soil. One of the hallmarks of the West has always been the protection of women and children, no longer in many Blue States and cities. 170 Dems voted against the legislation.
Not a single Dem objected to handing tens of thousands of dollars to America's wealthiest families in the name of Green Energy and college loan forgiveness. Nor do any voice objections to transitioning elementary children without parental notice. A handful supported the expedited removal of convicted or self confessed foreign rapists, pedophiles and wife beaters. It is easier to find a live unicorn in DC than a Dem that will admit, for the first time ever, more than 1/2 of the US undocumented receive a variety of welfare benefits and other subsidies.
Other Progressive examples abound. Only lousy messaging by Reps has saved Dems from enduring the brunt of their self induced Progressive Purgatories. Before Dems can reunite the Center with the Far Left, a Center in the Dem Party, must once again exist.
You always bring excellent data to the discussion Madame Ross. I don't question it, but, that's probably because I mostly always agree with you. I wonder if you are ever called out for sources, as I am, within my own family, lol, God bless.
Much of the above is from Joel Kotkin a liberal demographer at Chapman University He loathes Trump. Mr. Kotkin has a team of grad students who do impeccable research. He is CA Institution, who does not attempt to hide the state of CA, and now the US. Nor does he charge to read the pieces he often writes for Unherd , Spiked and various other publications.
The only way this changes is for the Dems to lose more elections.
Both factions are fighting over the support of what Musa al-Gharbi calls the symbolic capitalists, the elite that writes and litigates and deals in ideas. The problem is that there aren't enough to go around, so they compete over words, and who can be most woke. I can't imagine the D party not making gains in the midterms, less than a united party might make but enough to reassure themselves. I see no signs of enlightenment.
I like to frame these "factions" more as "unwinnable civil wars." You have
*Illegal aliens & their defenders/mayors v. inner city residents (mostly black) who are now being denied their lawfully-ordained services which are spent on illegals. This is more than "let's work together: two dogs, one bone.
*The anti-Israel/pro-pale/pro-Hamas wing that is on the verge of electing "intifadists" as mayor of both NY and Minneapolis v. Jews/Israel. Democrats are counting on the fact that no matter how much they abuse the Jewish voters, they will be loyal. Maybe. But there is a point for everything . . .
*The AI Techbros v. green climate change group. The fact that AI is absolutely exploding while the Trump admin is deconstructing the entire useless green energy scam. No way these groups coexist.
*The boys are girls transoids vs. biological sexes, which, again, has no real middle ground.
*The Biden apologists saying that he didn't do anything wrong with the autopen and other regulations vs. those who just want him to go away. One group will defend, one will run.
There are variations, but I don't see ANY reconciliation between these extremes.
I might phrase it a bit differently but these are the major divisions! Some/many of which may be irreconcilable as you suggest.
Brilliantly diagnostic essay until I hit this "the most plausible path I can see to bridge these divides and reach more independents is for both the left and the center to drop their cultural, foreign policy, and single-issue demands and concentrate on restoring Democrats as the party of economic uplift for working-class Americans." Could you be more specific as to a) by "drop their demands," do you mean downplay, cease to advocate for, or ???, and b) does "single issue" modify all of theses issues or are "single issues" a separate category, and c) could you give 3-4 specific examples for each side (progressives and centrists) of the issues that you think they should drop. Finally, I love the unifying message but don't you need a combination of more specific proposals plus the legislative requirements for passage and implementation? With these additions, even at the cost of some length, I'd send this essay everywhere.
Maybe anti-Trump rhetoric is not the way to go? Trump is doing some good things and maybe should admit what is good and build on his successes because that is what we independents voted for. Maybe soften some of the extreme moves he’s made.?
While I understand the logic of this argument, I still think that by vehemently bashing the hard left, moderates could bring more swing voters into the party than they would lose by leftists leaving. If progressives who are pragmatic on cultural issues (those who see the need for border security as well much more humane deportations than Trump's, the need for cheap oil and gas as well as renewables, and the need to respect parents freaked out by YGT) unite with the moderates, they can sideline the hard left and win back independents and former Democrats.
As I recall the shellacking in 1968, Nixon /Agnew et al, rerouted the Dem. Party from Chevy owners to Identify Politics?! Maybe the recent drubbing will likewise reorient its focus and messaging?! I agree with better informed others that a vote for DJT was less one for the Republican Party- now eviscerated in my view,- and more a vote against both parties who morphed into a reflection of each other. As with nearly all sports, when you’ve lost the middle, you’ve lost.
Nice try but one of the few things both factions of the party agree on is how much they hate most if not all of the policies that will actually achieve the agenda you propose. The proof? However imperfectly, the Republicans are delivering much of this agenda amid vicious and violent opposition from a Democrat party that is united in hatred of anything Trump does just because it's him. How will voters ever believe the Dems are serious about secure borders, law and order, no more identity politics or transgender when the Dems are out there every day fighting, sometimes literally, against every one of those policies? It is ludicrous to imagine that the current party would ever endorse common sense policies and even more absurd to imagine voters will believe they mean any of it.
"Good housing, medical care, education, and a secure retirement shouldn’t be luxuries reserved for the rich. They should be within reach for anyone who puts in the effort. Americans should be able to support their families with full-time employment and enjoy their life with a middle-class income. Democratic policies..."
What policies? Is whinging on about Trump going to build an affordable house? I can't get a single Dem to state specifically what they are offering voters to make their lives better.
The connection I see with the plight of the Democrat party is part of the more universal flaw of the left worldview.
These are people that despise competition on merit, and seek the advantage. They are also more prone to emotional disorders and poor emotional regulation skills. The result of that is the pursuit of short-term, feel-good returns rather than enduring challenges that produce long-term improvements.
In a real Darwinist world where every animal except humans, but only for the last 150 years or so, has existed primarily in a struggle to survive another day and procreate, Democrats are the collection of the people that in those days of survival first would reside on the lower side of capability.
In general Democrats reject the struggle and thus become weaker and less capable to compete.
This is the general flaw of collectivism too. The myth of collective equality and egalitarianism results in declining productive capability. Rewards based on individual productive merit where there is copious competition... that results in greater growth in productive capability.
Democrats have surrounded themselves with safe spaces, protections' fealty and support to the point that they are too weak to compete. Meanwhile their strategy to negatively character assassinate Republicans and put them at constant disadvantage with a system stacked in Democrat favor, has made the Republicans stronger and more capable.
Individualism, freedom, liberty, democracy, capitalism... these concepts are those supporting a system that spirals upward in increasingly advancing capability from competition on real merit. Democrats recoil from a system of real merit and thus find themselves decreasing in capability. In their desperation they can only double-down on increasing their negative attack strategy of their opponent. It is all they have.
The Democratic factions are Left and Crazy. They should not pretend to be Center but provide a left alternative. Best way is Affluence agenda minus climate change. Add in some Affordability and Populist Fusion.
Other than pollsters, who have served no one any good for a long time, who have the Dems talked to who are independents or Dems disaffected voters? Maybe if the Dems just disbanded the circle firing squad, it would be a step in thee right direction.
But I thought that Mamdani was the future of the party. A breath of fresh air. Able to communicate with the young. Yes? No?
He received less than 9% of the votes of eligible voters in NYC. THAT's the future?
Only time will tell with Spanberger. Her politics reflected her district. Already starting to change as she pursues statewide office. Of course, will be interesting to see how she chooses to govern.